The most popular reasons are:
-----
<>[Reason] #1 - Enemy deck is too slow to win/lose
-> [Explanation] - This only bothers players because a game that takes 20 minutes will give you just as many crystals/exp/trophy count/character exp as a game that takes 2 minutes. This is retarded.
-> [Sollution] - Scale reward with duration of a game. Do it through Milestones (every X minutes reward increases by Y), do it whatever way you want it, but do it...
-> [Result] - Players will not feel so bothered when fighting a slow deck because their reward scales. Whether they win or lose 5 fast games or 1 slow game it will feel just as rewarding.
-----
<>[Reason] #2 - Players can join a new game right after they quit their previous.
-> [Explanation] - When facing a player they think they'll lose to, some players are inclined to leave immediately or take too long to decide, and keep doing that until they find a player they think they can beat.
-> [Sollution] #2 - Make players unable to join a new fight for a while when they leave or take too long to decide.
-> [Sollution] #2 - Improved - Create an AI and make the server play instead of the player that quits. The quitting player will have to wait until the fight is finished before he can join a new one. It will be a loss to him no matter what, and he will gain no reward, but this also means the player that sticks around has to earn his win, rather than it being handed to him.
If both players quit, none gains anything, and must wait a while before joining a new fight.
-> [Result] - Players in general will see no benefit in leaving a fight.
-----
<>[Reason] #3 - You feel the enemy deck is overpowered and it makes you sick to see them play it.
-> [Explanation] - Matchups in Eredan are a bunch of crap. In high ELO it may be somewhat fairly matched but that's only because of the small amount of decks that can reach it. Leveling, Training and ELO rooms constantly pit players of vastly different deck qualities against each other, wich also promotes quitting.
-> [Sollution] #3 - Create Grade Rooms.
Grade Rooms would have ranges of Deck Grades.
Deck Grades would be the sum of the Card Values.
Each Card would have a Value, according to various factors, to somewhat define its usefulness and synergy.

It would certainly not be perfect, but none of the present systems even slightly matches its efficiency.

I say this accounting for the fact that the same card has different degrees of usefulness in different decks.
-----
<>[Reason] #4 - You need a trophy and you think the enemy deck isn't weak enough for you to get it
-> [Explanation] - In the rooms you can complete trophies: Tournament, ELO or Leveling, you will find 90% of the time players that are lurking around with maxed decks that already finished the trophy or don't care for the trophy, and may actually be interested in taking advantage on the fact that other players are working on the trophy (increasing his rate of wins, etc).
-> [Sollution] #4 - The suggestion for [Reason] #3 would fix this as when building a deck specifically for trophies you'd most likely find similar decks in Grade Rooms, most likely players working for the Trophies as well or at least evenly matched.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (18-09-2011 22:39:31)

GGuti · 18-09-2011 15:11:42

Nurvus a écrit :

We all know there are quitters everywhere in Eredan.
They quit for all kinds of reasons.
One of them may be you, and you may think that in YOUR case it's justified.
The most popular reasons are:
-----
<>[Reason] #1 - Enemy deck is too slow to win/lose
-> [Explanation] - This only bothers players because a game that takes 20 minutes will give you just as many crystals/exp/trophy count/character exp as a game that takes 2 minutes. This is retarded.
-> [Sollution] - Scale reward with duration of a game. Do it through Milestones (every X minutes reward increases by X), do it whatever way you want it, but do it...
-> [Result] - Players will not feel so bothered when fighting a slow deck because their reward scales. Whether they win or lose 5 fast games or 1 slow game it will feel just as rewarding.
-----
<>[Reason] #2 - Players can join a new game right after they quit their previous.
-> [Explanation] - When facing a player they think they'll lose to, some players are inclined to leave immediately or take too long to decide, and keep doing that until they find a player they think they can beat.
-> [Sollution] #1 - Make players unable to join a new fight for a while when they leave or take too long to decide.
-> [Sollution] #1 - Improved - Create an AI and make the server play instead of the player that quits. The quitting player will have to wait until the fight is finished before he can join a new one. It will be a loss to him no matter what, and he will gain no reward, but this also means the player that sticks around has to earn his win, rather than it being handed to him.
If both players quit, none gains anything, and must wait a while before joining a new fight.
-> [Result] - Players in general will see no benefit in leaving a fight.
-----
<>[Reason] #3 - You feel the enemy deck is overpowered and it makes you sick to see them play it.
-> [Explanation] - Matchups in Eredan are a bunch of crap. In high ELO it may be somewhat fairly matched but that's only because of the small amount of decks that can reach it. Leveling, Training and ELO rooms constantly pit players of vastly different deck qualities against each other, wich also promotes quitting.
-> [Sollution] #1 - Create Grade Rooms.
Grade Rooms would have ranges of Deck Grades.
Deck Grades would be the sum of the Card Values.
Each Card would have a Value, according to various factors, to somewhat define its usefulness and synergy.
It would certainly not be perfect, but none of the present systems even slightly matches its efficiency.
I say this accounting for the fact that the same card has different degrees of usefulness in different decks.
-----
<>[Reason] #4 - You need a trophy and you think the enemy deck isn't weak enough for you to get it
-> [Explanation] - In the rooms you can complete trophies: Tournament, ELO or Leveling, you will find 90% of the time players that are lurking around with maxed decks that already finished the trophy or don't care for the trophy, and may actually be interested in taking advantage on the fact that other players are working on the trophy (increasing his rate of wins, etc).
-> [Sollution] - The suggestion for [Reason] #3 would fix this as when building a deck specifically for trophies you'd most likely find similar decks in Grade Rooms, most likely players working for the Trophies as well or at least evenly matched.

Best post I've ever read.
+1

goscar · 18-09-2011 17:25:23

http://forum.eredan.com/viewtopic.php?id=27461

If ppl can't quit then this game would be annoying.

tsuke1 · 18-09-2011 17:50:28

my only problem with this is in some cases you quit because you are disconnected from server and not any of the reasons above. I have a bad fairplay rating and I have never left a game once. All of it is due to multiple server disconnections.

If this can be implemented while distinguishing people who left the game due to server issues then I will be all for it.

Nurvus · 18-09-2011 18:34:35

When someone "leaves", let it be because they need to go somewhere, because they don't feel like playing anymore for the time being.
It is NOT acceptable to quit because you don't like your opponent's deck.

That's what I adress with my suggestions - giving reasons to stick around and taking away reasons to leave.

Ofcourse, distinguishing a disconnected player from a quitting player in situations where you "take too long to decide" would be necessary, or at least taken into account.

Although when you disconnect you probably take a while to get back anyway, so you wouldn't find yourself waiting much (or at all).

And the AI playing against you instead of the quitting player would play simple. Would likely be a somewhat easy win - it would just not be instantaneous.
---

If ppl can't quit then this game would be annoying.

This game is annoying BECAUSE people quit.
If people have more reasons not to quit - or better yet, no reason to quit - it will stop being annoying.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (18-09-2011 18:40:58)

Nurvus · 29-07-2012 14:47:42

Pump

Nurvus · 21-08-2012 11:11:37

Could I get some feedback from anyone on the Staff regarding Reason #1?
Is it hard to make reward scale with match duration?
Is it unfair?

Dr Vlad · 21-08-2012 12:13:26

However, I feel like match lenght bonus should scale with number of turns, not time. If it scaled with time, it would encourage waiting until last second to play. That would just make game boring.

Teremune · 21-08-2012 12:23:13

Nurvus a écrit :

Could I get some feedback from anyone on the Staff regarding Reason #1?
Is it hard to make reward scale with match duration?
Is it unfair?

Yeah in my last 15 battles i think I've had at least 4 people who quit on me 2 before i perfected them....so annoying. I sent each and every one of them a message stating they should quit the game, because they are completely useless to the enjoyment of this game. Probably the same kids who play on xbox and player kill their own team mates and won't shut up while on the mike.

Nurvus · 21-08-2012 12:42:44

Dr Vlad a écrit :

However, I feel like match lenght bonus should scale with number of turns, not time. If it scaled with time, it would encourage waiting until last second to play. That would just make game boring.

That makes no sense if you really think about it...

Scaling with Turns is actually exploitable.
It'll allow crystal farmers to farm even better, by trying to reach a high Turn count in the shortest amount of time possible.

Scaling with Time is balanced.
If you decide quickly, you can play again sooner.
If you decide at the last second, you will take longer to play again.

It'll be balanced whether it's a beatdown deck, control deck, a pro or a newbie, whether you take alot of time to decide or decide quickly, you will always get X crystals per second, no matter what, increased or decreased by a percentage based on whether the game is a loss, draw, win or perfect.

That makes players not worry so much about playing against Control/Stall decks, because it will be worth their time nonetheless.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (21-08-2012 12:44:58)

kilcosu · 21-08-2012 13:30:34

I've seen some some pretty dedicated players pull out some crazy combos with screen shots of how long the game has lasted.. I don't remember the exact number but the match was afew hours long.

for this reason a crystal cap would probably need to be employed to make sure that it's not exploited.

Nurvus · 21-08-2012 15:48:52

kilcosu a écrit :

I've seen some some pretty dedicated players pull out some crazy combos with screen shots of how long the game has lasted.. I don't remember the exact number but the match was afew hours long.
for this reason a crystal cap would probably need to be employed to make sure that it's not exploited.

Do I need to repeat myself?

That is only exploitable IF the crystals scale with TURNS.

If Crystals/EXP scale with TIME, it is NOT exploitable.

With my idea, it doesn't matter if you play 2x 5 minute games or 1x 10 minute game, because you'll get the same amount of crystals in 10 minutes.

No matter how slow or fast you play, you will never get more than X crystals/second.
Unless you can speed up time, somehow? -_-

My idea actually NERFs crystal farmers.
Imagine Feerik sets the reward such that you get as much as you do now if the game lasts 5 minutes.
If it lasts less, less reward.
If it lasts more, more reward.

Games only last under 5 minutes when they are "fixed" or when one of the decks is overpowered.

With my idea, it means no more speed farm Turn 2 perfect kills (easily done with Venerable Shulong vs 3x 0 spirit characters) for 70 crystals.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (21-08-2012 15:56:55)

Stormholt · 21-08-2012 17:15:43

Nurvus a écrit :

Could I get some feedback from anyone on the Staff regarding Reason #1?
Is it hard to make reward scale with match duration?
Is it unfair?

Feerik Words:

We think that's nice but we're working on the clan module

kilcosu · 21-08-2012 18:38:25

Nurvus a écrit :

kilcosu a écrit :
I've seen some some pretty dedicated players pull out some crazy combos with screen shots of how long the game has lasted.. I don't remember the exact number but the match was afew hours long.
for this reason a crystal cap would probably need to be employed to make sure that it's not exploited.
Do I need to repeat myself?
That is only exploitable IF the crystals scale with TURNS.
If Crystals/EXP scale with TIME, it is NOT exploitable.
With my idea, it doesn't matter if you play 2x 5 minute games or 1x 10 minute game, because you'll get the same amount of crystals in 10 minutes.
No matter how slow or fast you play, you will never get more than X crystals/second.
Unless you can speed up time, somehow? -_-
My idea actually NERFs crystal farmers.
Imagine Feerik sets the reward such that you get as much as you do now if the game lasts 5 minutes.
If it lasts less, less reward.
If it lasts more, more reward.
Games only last under 5 minutes when they are "fixed" or when one of the decks is overpowered.
With my idea, it means no more speed farm Turn 2 perfect kills (easily done with Venerable Shulong vs 3x 0 spirit characters) for 70 crystals.

dude you don't need to repeat yourself. I wasn't talking about turns when I said "how long the game has lasted."
I was talking about Hours. literally hours playing one match. and I've seen it in a screen shot. so the entire break down you did really was unnecessary although helpful to see your point more. no offense

And it is exploitable if you and an opponent have a fixed match where you can't run out of cards but you can't hit each other either. open another tab and play on the internet and only come back to beat the "took to long to decide" disconnect happening. Play a single 2 hour long match instead of playing alot of little matches

Dernière modification par kilcosu (21-08-2012 18:42:13)

Nurvus · 21-08-2012 18:48:12

What does it matter?

Whether someone plays a match that lasts 1 hour, or plays 12 matches 5 minutes long each, he'll get the same amount of crystals (assuming they all had the same result).

That isn't unbalanced, nor exploitable.
If you're going to argue someone can make a bot to play like that, I'll argue someone can make a bot to spam fights.

What's the difference?
The difference is that Feerik would have an EASIER time spotting fights that last for hours, don't you think?

kilcosu · 21-08-2012 19:05:04

between the two options of spamming fights or just having one match where they don't do anything most people would agree that it would be easier to make one that doesn't do anything.

and as far as i'm aware as long as two actual people are playing the game (not bots) it's not Illegal to have a match that lasts for an hour.

then there are loading screen times that can mess with the time difference in each situation. 5 fixed matches between two people still have to go through 10 loading screens in order to play their matches whereas the 1 long fixed match only has 2. more time equals more crystals.

that's the difference.

Nurvus · 21-08-2012 19:11:19

kilcosu a écrit :

I wasn't talking about turns when I said "how long the game has lasted."

No, but you were talking about exploiting, wich I said can only happen if the reward scales with Turns, not how long a game lasts.

kilcosu a écrit :

between the two options of spamming fights or just having one match where they don't do anything most people would agree that it would be easier to make one that doesn't do anything.
and as far as i'm aware as long as two actual people are playing the game (not bots) it's not Illegal to have a match that lasts for an hour.
then there are loading screen times that can mess with the time difference in each situation. 5 fixed matches between two people still have to go through 10 loading screens in order to play their matches whereas the 1 long fixed match only has 2. more time equals more crystals.
that's the difference.

You're speaking of a minor benefit in a ridiculous hypotetical situation.

If someone has the dedication to "legally" play an hour long match, then by all means let them have the extra 12 crystals or something, they deserve it.

What did they earn with all that work? The crystals/second they would lose from the 10 loading screens they skipped.
That's what, a total of 60 seconds per hour?
Bravo!

Dernière modification par Nurvus (21-08-2012 19:17:17)

kilcosu · 21-08-2012 19:16:54

essentially yeah. it's the little things that matter most

doctordeath · 22-08-2012 07:35:05

Nurvus a écrit :

We all know there are quitters everywhere in Eredan.
They quit for all kinds of reasons.
One of them may be you, and you may think that in YOUR case it's justified.
The most popular reasons are:
-----
<>[Reason] #1 - Enemy deck is too slow to win/lose
-> [Explanation] - This only bothers players because a game that takes 20 minutes will give you just as many crystals/exp/trophy count/character exp as a game that takes 2 minutes. This is retarded.
-> [Sollution] - Scale reward with duration of a game. Do it through Milestones (every X minutes reward increases by Y), do it whatever way you want it, but do it...
-> [Result] - Players will not feel so bothered when fighting a slow deck because their reward scales. Whether they win or lose 5 fast games or 1 slow game it will feel just as rewarding.
-----
<>[Reason] #2 - Players can join a new game right after they quit their previous.
-> [Explanation] - When facing a player they think they'll lose to, some players are inclined to leave immediately or take too long to decide, and keep doing that until they find a player they think they can beat.
-> [Sollution] #2 - Make players unable to join a new fight for a while when they leave or take too long to decide.
-> [Sollution] #2 - Improved - Create an AI and make the server play instead of the player that quits. The quitting player will have to wait until the fight is finished before he can join a new one. It will be a loss to him no matter what, and he will gain no reward, but this also means the player that sticks around has to earn his win, rather than it being handed to him.
If both players quit, none gains anything, and must wait a while before joining a new fight.
-> [Result] - Players in general will see no benefit in leaving a fight.
-----
<>[Reason] #3 - You feel the enemy deck is overpowered and it makes you sick to see them play it.
-> [Explanation] - Matchups in Eredan are a bunch of crap. In high ELO it may be somewhat fairly matched but that's only because of the small amount of decks that can reach it. Leveling, Training and ELO rooms constantly pit players of vastly different deck qualities against each other, wich also promotes quitting.
-> [Sollution] #3 - Create Grade Rooms.
Grade Rooms would have ranges of Deck Grades.
Deck Grades would be the sum of the Card Values.
Each Card would have a Value, according to various factors, to somewhat define its usefulness and synergy.
It would certainly not be perfect, but none of the present systems even slightly matches its efficiency.
I say this accounting for the fact that the same card has different degrees of usefulness in different decks.
-----
<>[Reason] #4 - You need a trophy and you think the enemy deck isn't weak enough for you to get it
-> [Explanation] - In the rooms you can complete trophies: Tournament, ELO or Leveling, you will find 90% of the time players that are lurking around with maxed decks that already finished the trophy or don't care for the trophy, and may actually be interested in taking advantage on the fact that other players are working on the trophy (increasing his rate of wins, etc).
-> [Sollution] #4 - The suggestion for [Reason] #3 would fix this as when building a deck specifically for trophies you'd most likely find similar decks in Grade Rooms, most likely players working for the Trophies as well or at least evenly matched.

You forgot [Reason] #5, which I find to be the most common. You're opponent just doesn't want you to get a perfect. This has happened to me 4-5 times in the last 2 days alone. The last one was XXXXX who was down to his last character at 3 life left up against my character who had healed back to his starting life. I played my cards to finalize my perfect but he timed out at turn 12 with only 3 cards left in his hand.

Edit moderation byu Zurga : The forum is not a tribunal, even if you find some behaviour unfair, you are not allowed to publish the name on the forum

Dernière modification par Zurga (22-08-2012 08:51:35)

Nurvus · 22-08-2012 12:57:50

You're wrong.
Your "reason #5" is a result of one of the other reasons.
It's not a cause, it's a consequence.

The guy left because:
He feels your deck is unfair; or he feels you got lucky and don't deserve the perfect, etc.
Or maybe he simply was a victim of poor fairplay as well and it's neverending cycle.

I have quit myself a few times when all I get is crappy cards, and the opponent gets lucky hand (like Time to Die and Artrezil's Heritage in the first 5 cards), and then the opponent has characters with 8-13 attack and does 13 damage, while my characters do closer to the minimum.

That kind of random bullshit makes me quit everynow and then because it's not the player's skill or deck strategy that wins, but the sheer retarded luck.

I despise the existence of characters with a difference between Min and Max attack larger than 3.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (22-08-2012 13:05:08)

doctordeath · 24-08-2012 22:18:34

Nurvus a écrit :

You're wrong.
Your "reason #5" is a result of one of the other reasons.
It's not a cause, it's a consequence.
The guy left because:
He feels your deck is unfair; or he feels you got lucky and don't deserve the perfect, etc.
Or maybe he simply was a victim of poor fairplay as well and it's neverending cycle.
I have quit myself a few times when all I get is crappy cards, and the opponent gets lucky hand (like Time to Die and Artrezil's Heritage in the first 5 cards), and then the opponent has characters with 8-13 attack and does 13 damage, while my characters do closer to the minimum.
That kind of random bullshit makes me quit everynow and then because it's not the player's skill or deck strategy that wins, but the sheer retarded luck.
I despise the existence of characters with a difference between Min and Max attack larger than 3.

Those MAY provide reasons, but there are times (like the specific instance I cited) where my deck was just superior to the other one, playing cards that aren't unique (so with 3 copies in my deck I'm bound to get them eventually)

I agree that the luck component is VERY annoying. The luck component seems to work against me 90% of the time. I just fought inferno on adventure mode and had him down to 6 life and 0 defense. I only had 7 cards left in my deck and discarded my entire hand to draw 5. I had two copies of a card GUARANTEED to give me the win. 5 cards dealt... SORRY the only two cards left in my deck are BOTH copies of the card that guarantees me the win. So I play what I have and 20/20 attack inferno only manages to get me to EXACTLY ZERO (one damage less and I win). My attack is 8/12 so take him to negative. I figure I'll win on points since I did a lot of healing, but NO, since I'm at exactly 0, I die and trigger his healing to bring him back positive, so automatic win for Inferno.

Anyhow, I think an easy solution to people leaving or timing out to prevent the perfect is that if your opponent leaves the match or times out you AUTOMATICALLY get a perfect. I think that would greatly reduce this behavior.

Nurvus · 24-08-2012 23:08:58

Part of game development is measuring the cons and the pros of sollutions.

Your suggestion makes crystal farm alot faster and easier.
End of turn 3, leave game. Opponent gets perfect.

Anyway, what I meant regarding the reason the player prevents you from getting a perfect is a consequence and not a cause, it's because it's a consequence of the current state of the game.

There's very low fairplay.
There are very unbalanced decks.
There is an increasing flavor of the month style in terms of releases, together with a constant power creep.

Players become incresingly frustrated, and together with poor fairplay, where players leave at the sight of decks they have a disadvantage against, it just encourages players to quit even more...

It's a snowball.
Sometimes even if the game doesn't die, it may kill the community.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (24-08-2012 23:23:56)

doctordeath · 25-08-2012 03:17:59

Nurvus a écrit :

Part of game development is measuring the cons and the pros of sollutions.
Your suggestion makes crystal farm alot faster and easier.
End of turn 3, leave game. Opponent gets perfect.
Anyway, what I meant regarding the reason the player prevents you from getting a perfect is a consequence and not a cause, it's because it's a consequence of the current state of the game.
There's very low fairplay.
There are very unbalanced decks.
There is an increasing flavor of the month style in terms of releases, together with a constant power creep.
Players become incresingly frustrated, and together with poor fairplay, where players leave at the sight of decks they have a disadvantage against, it just encourages players to quit even more...
It's a snowball.
Sometimes even if the game doesn't die, it may kill the community.

Well, your original post gave some very well thought-out solutions that I hope the administrators take the time to seriously consider. Even if they only implement half of the things you suggested in their own way it would be a great improvement for the game. Happy Hunting!

Cyanide · 29-08-2012 06:07:18

Nurvus a écrit :

I have quit myself a few times when all I get is crappy cards...

^Reason #5

Solution - Implement a MTG style mulligan (ie if you redraw, you draw one less card).

Result - Fewer instances of rage quit over a good deck being poorly drawn.

Drawback - Abuse for first turn combos, which may instigate a prior reason for quitting.

dox_kzerza · 20-09-2012 02:56:57

I'm all for that grade system! :3

Normally when I try to get a trophy, with this silly deck that I have, then I already surrender myself to losing 9 out of 10 times. XD

end of fight: lost perfect.

+1 point to throphy couter. Okay! :3 only 99 more to go! XD

OR

Add a "Surrender" feature. ^^"

Dernière modification par dox_kzerza (21-09-2012 19:13:21)

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 18-09-2011 14:09:26

Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#2 18-09-2011 15:11:42

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#3 18-09-2011 17:25:23

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#4 18-09-2011 17:50:28

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#5 18-09-2011 18:34:35

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#6 29-07-2012 14:47:42

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#7 21-08-2012 11:11:37

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#8 21-08-2012 12:13:26

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#9 21-08-2012 12:23:13

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#10 21-08-2012 12:42:44

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#11 21-08-2012 13:30:34

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#12 21-08-2012 15:48:52

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#13 21-08-2012 17:15:43

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#14 21-08-2012 18:38:25

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#15 21-08-2012 18:48:12

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#16 21-08-2012 19:05:04

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#17 21-08-2012 19:11:19

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#18 21-08-2012 19:16:54

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#19 22-08-2012 07:35:05

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#20 22-08-2012 12:57:50

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#21 24-08-2012 22:18:34

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#22 24-08-2012 23:08:58

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#23 25-08-2012 03:17:59

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#24 29-08-2012 06:07:18

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

#25 20-09-2012 02:56:57

Re : Improve Fairplay - Employ Anti-Quitting Features

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