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#1 31-07-2011 15:27:57

Nurvus
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Inscription : 01-12-2010
Messages : 2 526

Card Stat - Elite

I thought I'd put this suggestion out here to be more visible, as well as clearing it up a bit.

So there have been going around complaints about certain decks or cards being overpowered; Legendaries being too expensive and otherwise unfair for competitiveness; your favorite cards/decks being banned for too long; etc.

In most if not all cases of "overpoweredness" there isn't a single card at fault, but rather a whole combo that is too effective.

The suggestion below is about branding certain cards "above average" so that u can only have a maximum amount of them in the deck, rather than banning cards.

[The Suggestion - Elite Cards]
- Certain cards are given the Elite stat when considered too strong.
- You can only have 3 Elite cards in a deck.

What it is:
- A "visible" card stat just like Unique.
- A way to keep balance in check.
- A way to keep all decks alive by not banning any cards.
- A way to promote deck variants - thanks to GKZhukov (http://forum.eredan.com/viewtopic.php?p … 48#p362748)


What it is not:
- A "hidden" property like "Banned from ELO".
- A way to nerf my most hated and/or buff my favorite deck

[How does this work/fix anything?]
Note: The example below is not a rant against Discard decks, just an hypotetical situation.
Let's just pretend [card]The Prestige[/card], [card]Mental Syphon[/card], [card]Treacherous[/card], [card]Theft[/card] and [card]Panic[/card] are considered too powerful when together in the same deck.

Then imagine that:
The Prestige, Mental Syphon and Treacherous are Elite.
That means you can have one of the below combos in your deck:
- 1 The Prestige + 1 Mental Syphon + 1 Treacherous (+ 3 Theft + 3 Panic)
- 1 The Prestige + 2 Treacherous (+ 3 Theft + 3 Panic)
- 1 Mental Syphon + 2 Treacherous (+ 3 Theft + 3 Panic)
- 3 Treacherous (+ 3 Theft + 3 Panic)

Or, imagine that:
Treacherous and Theft are Elite.
That means you can have one of the below combos in your deck:
- (1 The Prestige + 1 Mental Syphon +3 Panic) + 3 Treacherous
- (1 The Prestige + 1 Mental Syphon +3 Panic) + 2 Treacherous + 1 Theft
- (1 The Prestige + 1 Mental Syphon +3 Panic) + 1 Treacherous + 2 Theft
- (1 The Prestige + 1 Mental Syphon +3 Panic) + 3 Theft

This is just hypotetically speaking!

Above you can see many variants for the same theme: Circus Discard.
As pointed out by GKZhukov, you would see similarly themed decks taking on completely different directions - not because of your Crystal/Feez limitations, but because of your own preference and creativity.

Result?
- Feerik is able to "tune" a deck without banning cards.
- If a deck needs further tuning, all that needs to be done is change wich and how many cards are Elite.
- The bottom line is that it allows Feerik to remove the O from OP without banning cards by instead creating a system that limits how many "OP" cards are put together in the same deck.

What do you think about the presented Elite card category?


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    Awesome!

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    Could work.

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    Awful...

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    Could you repeat the question?
Votes totaux: 66

Why?


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    Your post is clear enough.

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    I posted my reasons.

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    Because I say so!

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    Just trolling.
Votes totaux: 66

Les résultats du sondage sont masqués pour les invités

Dernière modification par Nurvus (18-08-2011 01:17:02)


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#2 04-08-2011 19:31:52

Nurvus
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Inscription : 01-12-2010
Messages : 2 526

Re : Card Stat - Elite

Some constructive criticism would be awesome.
Pretty please?
And bunnies too!


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#3 06-08-2011 21:15:54

Nurvus
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

Come on, at least 25 votes so we can see some results -_- can't edit that part...


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#4 06-08-2011 22:44:25

Joey_Parker
Habitant de Guem
Inscription : 21-10-2010
Messages : 175

Re : Card Stat - Elite

i voted yes for me smile


"Fear is all in the mind"


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#5 08-08-2011 23:27:26

Nurvus
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

11 more votes. Come on.
And discuss your opinion, specially if you disagree.


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#6 11-08-2011 19:17:31

Nurvus
Gardien
Inscription : 01-12-2010
Messages : 2 526

Re : Card Stat - Elite

Still only 14 votes.
Are there only 14 active visitors of these forums?

Please share your opinion with a vote, and if possible, with a post as well.


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#7 13-08-2011 01:48:15

Anihilate
Solarian
Inscription : 08-09-2010
Messages : 744

Re : Card Stat - Elite

This would balance things out quite a bit, Bump. And this thread is going in my siggy.


IGN: Shrei VonWeisheit
Mercenaries and trophies are underrated.
PS: I'm insane big_smile


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#8 13-08-2011 11:48:34

Nurvus
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Inscription : 01-12-2010
Messages : 2 526

Re : Card Stat - Elite

Thanks. I really believe this would fix pretty much every damn issue that leads cards to get banned - without banning them.

6 votes to see the results!


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#9 16-08-2011 21:36:31

Nurvus
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Messages : 2 526

Re : Card Stat - Elite

3 more votes, come on.

And post your comments on the idea. Come on, I'm not that volatile, you can spark a little.


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#10 17-08-2011 21:28:10

Nurvus
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Inscription : 01-12-2010
Messages : 2 526

Re : Card Stat - Elite

So essentially the 4 answers that said "could you repeat the question & awful" were the same 4 that said "Just trolling"

The others were "Could work & awesome!" and "Your post is clear enough & because I say so!"

Thanks for the replies.
Keep the comments/votes coming.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (17-08-2011 21:31:41)


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#11 17-08-2011 22:54:52

kepkouse
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Inscription : 17-03-2011
Messages : 1 240

Re : Card Stat - Elite

This suggestion looks pretty well, butnow you have to define which card will become elite. More of than, i think that some cards must be define as "Unique" before validate the Elite properties (like mercy or leaving nature).

Dernière modification par kepkouse (17-08-2011 22:55:35)


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#12 17-08-2011 23:14:30

MrLordi92
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Lieu : Rhode Island
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Messages : 1 470

Re : Card Stat - Elite

I honestly think, despite you explaining it, it's still a fairly complicated trait.  You say it's not a hidden trait like the ban list, right?  Where do you put the combination of 'Epic' cards you can use?  On the card?  No.  On the ELO tournament page?  It'll get a bit cluttered.  In the end you'd have to memorize the combinations, or at the very least open up the forums and go to the post that has the combos.


"Some say there's no subtly to destruction.  You know what?  They're dead." ~ Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

"One footstep among many is silent.  One footstep alone is deafening."


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#13 18-08-2011 00:27:34

Nurvus
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

It is explained in the post... it's a Stat in the card, much like Unique.
If The Prestige is considered Elite, then it will say:
Unique - Elite

It's a very simple, straightforward way to limit the amount of powerful cards you have in the deck.


Let's imagine that instead of banning Ishaia, she's Elite...

It then means she will share a spot among those 3 Elite cards with other Elite cards, meaning it reduces the amount of "strong cards" in your deck.



By powerful, I mean those cards that are so good they can make combos overpowered.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (18-08-2011 00:34:47)


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#14 18-08-2011 00:34:34

MrLordi92
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Lieu : Rhode Island
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

Nurvus a écrit :

It is explained in the post... it's a Stat in the card, much like Unique.

It's a very simple, straightforward way to limit the amount of powerful cards you have in the deck.

Let's imagine The Prestige is considered Elite...
It would say:
Unique - Elite

Let's imagine that instead of banning Ishaia, she's Elite...

It then means she will share a spot among those 3 Elite cards with other Elite cards, meaning it reduces the amount of "strong cards" in your deck.



By powerful, I mean those cards that are so good they can make combos overpowered.

I know.  I wasn't talking about the type 'Elite.'  I was talking about the combination of cards you can have that are Elite. 

The combinations like 'You can only have X of ____ and Y of ____'  Where would you put that information?  Not on the card, there'd be no room.  The combinations of Epic cards you could have would be a hidden stat.


"Some say there's no subtly to destruction.  You know what?  They're dead." ~ Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

"One footstep among many is silent.  One footstep alone is deafening."


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#15 18-08-2011 00:37:39

Nurvus
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

What?

Elite would be Elite.
You can have 3 Elite cards in deck. Period smile

It doesn't matter what guild caste or race the card is. If it has Elite in it, it can only share a deck with 2 other Elite cards.

It's not about specific combos.

I mentioned that Treacherous and Theft could be Elite. If they were both Elite, that means you can have any combination of them where the total is 3.
Like:
3 Theft
1 Treacherous + 2 Theft
2 Treacherous + 1 Theft
3 Treacherous

Let's imagine Treacherous, Theft and Ishaia are Elite. It means if you have a Ishaia in the deck, the total of Treacherous + Theft in your deck can only be 2.
1 Ishaia + 2 Treacherous
1 Ishaia + 1 Treacherous + 1 Theft
1 Ishaia + 2 Theft

wink

The limitation on combinations is automatically applied when you brand cards as Elite... it's... math.
The stat Elite imposes a limit. Within that limit you mix and match.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (18-08-2011 00:59:42)


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#16 18-08-2011 01:01:25

MrLordi92
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Lieu : Rhode Island
Inscription : 05-12-2010
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

Nurvus a écrit :

What?

Elite would be Elite.
You can have 3 Elite cards in deck. Period smile

It doesn't matter what guild caste or race the card is. If it has Elite in it, it can only share a deck with 2 other Elite cards.

It's not about specific combos.

I mentioned that Treacherous and Theft could be Elite. If they were both Elite, that means you can have any combination of them where the total is 3.
Like:
3 Theft
1 Treacherous + 2 Theft
2 Treacherous + 1 Theft
3 Treacherous

Let's imagine Treacherous, Theft and Ishaia are Elite. It means if you have a Ishaia in the deck, the total of Treacherous + Theft in your deck can only be 2.
1 Ishaia + 2 Treacherous
1 Ishaia + 1 Treacherous + 1 Theft
1 Ishaia + 2 Theft

wink

The limitation on combinations is automatically applied when you brand cards as Elite... it's... math.
The stat Elite imposes a limit. Within that limit you mix and match.

Oh.....  Well, this is embarrassing.  I didn't actually read your entire post word for word.  I skipped the part where you said only three of the cards in the combination were actually Epic, so I was thinking that those combinations were all of epic cards. 

Heh.....  well, my mistake.  Sorry for misreading.


"Some say there's no subtly to destruction.  You know what?  They're dead." ~ Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

"One footstep among many is silent.  One footstep alone is deafening."


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#17 18-08-2011 10:44:40

Khantor
Habitant de Guem
Inscription : 14-05-2011
Messages : 207

Re : Card Stat - Elite

This suggestion looks great, but it will be very hard to find which card should be Elite and which shouldn't. Also, it will unbalance a lot of deck.

But if the staff could do it well, this would be very good for the game.

(sorry for my english)


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#18 24-08-2011 19:34:01

yugioh5ds2009
Guémélite
Inscription : 19-11-2010
Messages : 451

Re : Card Stat - Elite

good idea but i think the probleme is than the power of a deck is sometime 1 card, limit those cards in one or 2 times is i think better


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#19 18-09-2011 18:55:16

Nurvus
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

Any more feedback on this?
Perhaps a Dev could give a hint at whether this is anything slightly looked upon as a potential change or if completely goes against design?


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#20 18-09-2011 19:17:40

MrLordi92
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

Nurvus a écrit :

Any more feedback on this?
Perhaps a Dev could give a hint at whether this is anything slightly looked upon as a potential change or if completely goes against design?

Getting a Dev to give feedback or insight?  You're joking, right?


"Some say there's no subtly to destruction.  You know what?  They're dead." ~ Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

"One footstep among many is silent.  One footstep alone is deafening."


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#21 18-09-2011 19:25:14

Nurvus
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Messages : 2 526

Re : Card Stat - Elite

Your question makes me wonder: what do you think the forum section entitled "Suggestions" is here for? To look good?

If they put this section here, they better look at it every once in a while, otherwise just remove it.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (18-09-2011 19:26:00)


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#22 18-09-2011 21:44:38

MrLordi92
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

Nurvus a écrit :

Your question makes me wonder: what do you think the forum section entitled "Suggestions" is here for? To look good?

If they put this section here, they better look at it every once in a while, otherwise just remove it.

I think they just put it here to give us a false sense that they care.  You saw the Legendary Pack.  How much does that cost again?  About 10K feez? (They were going to make it a full 10K, but Feerik decided to cut us a break and only make it 9999 Feez)

IMO and others, Feerik doesn't care that much about 'their baby,' their game.  It's like breeding a child rather than raising it.  Dantesan says that they do read these and that there is a lot going on behind the curtain, and I'm inclined to believe him out of respect.  Once Feerik gives me a reason to believe they care, I'll retract my statement, but for now, I think Feerik is just squeezing our utters until that sweet green milk comes out of us.


"Some say there's no subtly to destruction.  You know what?  They're dead." ~ Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

"One footstep among many is silent.  One footstep alone is deafening."


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#23 18-09-2011 22:15:14

Nurvus
Gardien
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Re : Card Stat - Elite

Well I post under the expectation they might check the forums every once in a while.

Pretty pointless to post if I don't at least hope for that, hmm?


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#24 18-09-2011 23:22:30

MrLordi92
Gardien
Lieu : Rhode Island
Inscription : 05-12-2010
Messages : 1 470

Re : Card Stat - Elite

Nurvus a écrit :

Well I post under the expectation they might check the forums every once in a while.

Pretty pointless to post if I don't at least hope for that, hmm?

I'll give you that.  A long shot is a a shot none-the-less.


"Some say there's no subtly to destruction.  You know what?  They're dead." ~ Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

"One footstep among many is silent.  One footstep alone is deafening."


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#25 19-09-2011 00:22:14

tsuke1
crétin
Inscription : 12-09-2011
Messages : 76

Re : Card Stat - Elite

I think its a great idea smile but i dont think it will get implemented though since the premise behind the game is pay > win instead of game balance tongue


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