Eredan's World

Nurvus · 27-07-2012 15:26:10

DISCLAIMER:
The decks you can build and play now, should work the same with this suggestion.
What the suggestion changes, is adding ways for Feerik to increase card/chain costs instead of Banning or making Unique; or reduce card/chain costs to prevent cards from becoming obsolete.

A different approach to the various suggestions I made on balancing cards, such as Rank, Elite or Ranked Elite stats, I was thinking it could be done in a different way.

Suggestion:
Imagine each character has a new stat: Power X/Y.
- X represents the Power they have at the moment (starts at 0).
- Y represents the Power they gain at the start of each fight.
- The symbol could be a lightning or explosion.
- Power is consumed by each card that character plays
- Chaining cost additional Power.
- More than 1 Chain could be allowed as long as you can pay the total Card and Chain costs.
- Characters with chains could have a Chain cost associated, like Pirate Items for Captain Al Killicrew.
- Spells could have a Chain cost for Mages, but I think that isn't necessary.
- The Chain cost is only paid for cards Chained normally from your hand.
- Cards that are played by effects such as Illumination or In the Name of the Dragon, don't cost anything, and you do not pay any Chain costs because of them.
- For characters with their own Chain cost, if they play a card with Chain, they pay the lowest Chain cost.

Example #1:
Fight! - Power 1; Chain 1.

The card text would have:

Min Attack +1.
Chain 1.

The Power 1 would be somewhere in the card (possibly middle right or top right)

If you play Fight! + Fight!, you pay 3 Power total: 1 for the first Fight!, 1 for the Chain and 1 for the second Fight!.

Example #2:
Illumination - Power 3
Collision - Power 4
Fight! - Power 1; Chain 1.

If you play Fight! + Illumination (Collision), you pay 5 Power total: 1 for the Fight!, 1 for the Chain, 3 for Illumination, and 0 for Collision.

Goals:
- Allow Feerik to fine tune cards without banning, nerfing or heavily changing them (like adding Unique)
- Current successful Deck flow can remain the same
- Greatly increase the amount of competitive deck variety
- Allow Feerik to easily prevent cards from becoming obsolete, by lowering the card/chain costs, wich leads to a surplus of Power at later Turns.
This means a beginner deck might end up chaining 3 or 4 weak cards at later turns.
- New cards could be added, based around transfering/stealing or restoring/draining Power to/from one or more characters, or increasing/decreasing the Power generated by one or more characters.
- Bad hands are less punitive, since you can save up power for the next fight.

---

Do you guys think this could be an interesting addition to the game?

Dernière modification par Nurvus (25-10-2012 22:09:13)

goscar · 27-07-2012 19:08:16

NO... stupidest idea ever. I don't want a game where I can't play cards because it requires me to use up energy.

Nurvus · 27-07-2012 20:50:49

The goal isn't to stop you from playing cards...

The average cards played per fight should be the same.
It would simply allow:
- more strategical options, such as saving Power to unleash a stronger combo next fight (like chaining 3 cards)
- Feerik to design characters with lower Power generation but amazing stats or abilities, and vice-versa
- Feerik to design cards with varying costs

Dernière modification par Nurvus (27-07-2012 20:52:28)

Spify · 30-07-2012 21:35:56

What's going on between you and goscar? He seems to bash all your posts/ideas/suggestions. Is it something personal? Did you kicked his ass in the level room with an OP deck?

Criyo

Stormholt · 30-07-2012 21:38:45

Pls nurvus...

The game is good the way it is, dont give this idea to feerik, they going to f*** this game more that it already is...

Dernière modification par Stormholt (30-07-2012 21:40:12)

scorvos74 · 30-07-2012 22:58:05

I think that this would be a good idea; not for all cards but as a part of a new Guild or Cast (much like Runes are a part of the Legion, and powder is tool for Pirates).

Calandra · 30-07-2012 23:57:48

Stormholt a écrit :

Pls nurvus...
The game is good the way it is, dont give this idea to feerik, they going to f*** this game more that it already is...

erm? how many me's are residing in your head? either the game is good or f***ed up... decide now!

Stormholt · 31-07-2012 12:51:29

Calandra a écrit :

Stormholt a écrit :
Pls nurvus...
The game is good the way it is, dont give this idea to feerik, they going to f*** this game more that it already is...
erm? how many me's are residing in your head? either the game is good or f***ed up... decide now!

The game is F***, but it will be better without this... Who dont remember how last year Eredan was nice? You could play fun for a very cheap deck, now you NEED to got good cards

Teremune · 31-07-2012 13:30:58

Stormholt a écrit :

Calandra a écrit :
Stormholt a écrit :
Pls nurvus...
The game is good the way it is, dont give this idea to feerik, they going to f*** this game more that it already is...
erm? how many me's are residing in your head? either the game is good or f***ed up... decide now!
The game is F***, but it will be better without this... Who dont remember how last year Eredan was nice? You could play fun for a very cheap deck, now you NEED to got good cards

Yeah I think My other friends quit because they are not having fun since they hit level 11 pretty much. great game, but caters only to those who pay. But if new players don't enjoy the game the game will slowly die out.

Nurvus · 31-07-2012 15:36:20

Stormholt a écrit :

The game is F***, but it will be better without this... Who dont remember how last year Eredan was nice? You could play fun for a very cheap deck, now you NEED to got good cards

My suggestion allows Feerik to give value to weak cards like Fight! and Blast! by making them low Power cost, such that you aren't at a huge disadvantage for having a deck with them.

It will allow Feerik to FINALLY balance EVERY card in the game in a way that you can make ALL kinds of decks, cheap or expensive, and they will all be "somewhat" viable and probably competitive.

How is this a bad thing?

Nurvus · 24-10-2012 12:18:13

Any more comments?

magius · 24-10-2012 13:20:25

Personally, no offence Nurvus, this is a really bad idea. Why would it balance the game? I think the main pain is to build a deck. Imagine you have to think in terms of "power" in addition to other factors like strategy, etc. Calculating "power" during games, etc.

My brain cannot take this It will drive players away simply because you are making the game too complicated to pick up.

Magic The Gathering keeps its core mechanics simple and easy for new players. Eredan should do the same.

Dernière modification par magius (24-10-2012 13:21:03)

Nurvus · 24-10-2012 16:11:45

As I said before, the decks you can build now, would still be buildable and played roughly the same way.

Nothing would be ruined or overcomplicated.

For decks/cards that are overpowered, some cards might be given higher cost instead of being banned or becoming Unique.
For decks/cards that are underpowered, some cards might be given lower cost so that they don't become useless, allowing you to accumulate Power to chain 3-4 cards at later turns.

It opens up ways for Feerik to balance the game without constantly banning/destroying cards.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (24-10-2012 16:23:04)

MerlinCross · 25-10-2012 08:14:35

Teremune a écrit :

Yeah I think My other friends quit because they are not having fun since they hit level 11 pretty much. great game, but caters only to those who pay. But if new players don't enjoy the game the game will slowly die out.

Agreed. Got 2 friends to start playing this. Got around 11-12 and quit when they saw that they would lose every game in the PVP room from that point on, unless they paid. But I've made all my thoughts pretty clear to those that are regulars to the forums.

As for this, I think it's a bad idea as well. I don't see where you're coming from to say it won't overcomplicate things. I'm already confused a lot of the time due to card combos that wizz past so fast I'm in a daze. Under this I'll be confused to why I can't play a card. Is it due to the lack of power or the affects of the other guy. And this would be very very VERY hard to code the adventure AI to. At least I think it would be.

Under this, I just see the game becoming a number cruncher, wins not based of skill or luck, but the guy that did the math better when coming up with his deck. It also opens up Feerik another resource to mess with. Recall when powder was the only thing to really keep track of? Maybe turn count? Now we have corruptions, runes, graveyards, and remaining cards to worry about.

Dernière modification par MerlinCross (25-10-2012 08:17:23)

magius · 25-10-2012 09:02:12

MerlinCross a écrit :

As for this, I think it's a bad idea as well. I don't see where you're coming from to say it won't overcomplicate things. I'm already confused a lot of the time due to card combos that wizz past so fast I'm in a daze. Under this I'll be confused to why I can't play a card. Is it due to the lack of power or the affects of the other guy. And this would be very very VERY hard to code the adventure AI to. At least I think it would be.
Under this, I just see the game becoming a number cruncher, wins not based of skill or luck, but the guy that did the math better when coming up with his deck. It also opens up Feerik another resource to mess with. Recall when powder was the only thing to really keep track of? Maybe turn count? Now we have corruptions, runes, graveyards, and remaining cards to worry about.

This is my exact point. My brain cannot accept this new idea . There are plenty of factors to worry about without adding one more (and overcomplicated one at that). It will throw this game out of the window for me.

I am a number cruncher person but there is a difference between number cruncher for strategy and number cruncher for the sake of number crunching to balance weaker cards.

If they want to rebalance their cards, they should issue errata carefully and think before releasing grossly overpowered characters *cough* Oerunos dealing physical attack whenever his teammates AND himself die *cough*.

Lower power cards are there for beginners to start with. Eventually, through adventure or free feez, they will be able to upgrade to higher power cards. It is the same through all collectable card games.

Marketplace is in better shape than when I started the game (and you can access it via mere 12 Feez I think from purchasing Adventure Favour). And I have seen the transition of the marketplace from its very beginning (where Fireball is 20K and Solaris is 10K) - to mid-transition whereby prices sky-rocketed - till the more intelligent price cap version of it now.

Dernière modification par magius (25-10-2012 09:04:48)

Nurvus · 25-10-2012 14:55:48

I understand your concerns, but you guys are blindly denying the benefits of this.

Right now, when a card is considered too strong, it's banned for weeks, and then ultimately either severely reduced in effectiveness, made Unique, or stays banned.

This idea doesn't just balance weaker cards - it makes it easier to balance everything.

The problem with the current state of the game is that since cards have no cost, there is no granularity.
There is no room for small adjustments. Every adjustment has a big impact.

What extra "numbers" would you be "tracking" with this suggestion?
1 - For the most part, none, since most decks and cards would play the same way.
2 - If you make a deck that doesn't keep up with your Power generation, you'll eventually be able to chain 3 cards.
3 - If you make a deck that uses too much Power, you'll eventually be unable to chain a card for 1 fight, but only because you've been using uber cards till then, or your character is uber.
4 - How can it be complicated to have 1 stat in the character that increases the same amount every fight (not turn), usually only fluctuating by 1 or 2 after cards are played?

Anyway, cheers.
Enjoy the balanced game.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (25-10-2012 14:56:01)

MerlinCross · 25-10-2012 16:43:33

Nurvus a écrit :

I understand your concerns, but you guys are blindly denying the benefits of this.
Right now, when a card is considered too strong, it's banned for weeks, and then ultimately either severely reduced in effectiveness, made Unique, or stays banned.
This idea doesn't just balance weaker cards - it makes it easier to balance everything.
The problem with the current state of the game is that since cards have no cost, there is no granularity.
There is no room for small adjustments. Every adjustment has a big impact.
What extra "numbers" would you be "tracking" with this suggestion?
1 - For the most part, none, since most decks and cards would play the same way.
2 - If you make a deck that doesn't keep up with your Power generation, you'll eventually be able to chain 3 cards.
3 - If you make a deck that uses too much Power, you'll eventually be unable to chain a card for 1 fight, but only because you've been using uber cards till then, or your character is uber.
4 - How can it be complicated to have 1 stat in the character that increases the same amount every fight (not turn), usually only fluctuating by 1 or 2 after cards are played?
Anyway, cheers.
Enjoy the balanced game.

Okay, I agree something has to be done to help balance the game. But I don't think this is the right path.

And as for the number, we would be "tracking" the new power "numbers" that you came up with.
1 - True, cards most would play the same. Until they made new cards to affect this new resource. And some cards would have to be thought out of, do I want to chain or not. Decks would play different though. Radically.
2 - And if you make a deck that seems good, but you get a hand you can't use at all due to your lack of power on first turn, you've lost.
3 - And if you make an uber deck, why do you care that you can't chain later on if the other guy is in shambles.
4 - It's not how complicated it is now, it's how complicated it will be. I forsee Feerik making cards and characters that up the amount of power they get or hamper the other side's power. That and you'd really have to plan your game out rather than pick up and play. No longer can you just throw an item on and then chain into it. "Do I chain or do I save and hope to draw the card I really want to use?"

The game needs help yes, but forcing a new mechanic to balance the game that takes place in the actual game, rather than deck building, seems a bad idea.

Nurvus · 25-10-2012 22:00:01

Thanks to your feedback I realized another benefit of this suggestion:
Makes bad starting hands less game-breaking.
Why?
Because, unlike what you said regarding point 2, if for some reason you get a hand that only lets you play 1 card on first fight, you'll most likely be able to play 3 cards on second fight.

Imagine that, by default:
- characters gain 6 power when selected (before cards are selected)
- cards without a chain cost 3 power
- cards with a chain cost 2 power
- chains cost 1 power

Situation A (expensive hand)
If for some reason you make a deck full of OP cards without chain that cost 4 or OP cards with chain 1 that cost 3, if you get a hand full of those, you'll be able to play 1 card, but you'll save 2 power for the second fight.
Meaning on the second fight you'll have 8 power, effectively able to use 2 of such "OP" cards.

Situation B (cheap hand)
Likewise, if you build a deck with cheap cards without chain that cost 2, or with chain 1 and cost 1, you'll save power each fight, eventually becoming able to chain 3 or 4 cards in a single fight.

Situation C (bad hand)
If for some reason you start with a hand that has normal costs, but you only want to play 1 of the cards, you'll save up power and will likely be able to play 3 cards on the next fight (of the same character).

So it actually gives 2 options to players:
- Build a deck like they do now, not giving much importance to Power, and able to play the same way they do now, potentially getting into situations where they can play 3 cards in a single fight
- Build a deck accounting for the potential of power usage, wich is SUPER simple.
You know you'll get 6 power per fight, and decide to use less power on first turn and a big bang later on.
- Unlike what you say regarding my point 3, while you can save power, you can't overspend. The power generation of characters would limit how much you can do in first fight.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (25-10-2012 22:02:15)

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 27-07-2012 15:26:10

New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#2 27-07-2012 19:08:16

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#3 27-07-2012 20:50:49

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#4 30-07-2012 21:35:56

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#5 30-07-2012 21:38:45

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#6 30-07-2012 22:58:05

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#7 30-07-2012 23:57:48

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#8 31-07-2012 12:51:29

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#9 31-07-2012 13:30:58

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#10 31-07-2012 15:36:20

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#11 24-10-2012 12:18:13

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#12 24-10-2012 13:20:25

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#13 24-10-2012 16:11:45

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#14 25-10-2012 08:14:35

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#15 25-10-2012 09:02:12

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#16 25-10-2012 14:55:48

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#17 25-10-2012 16:43:33

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

#18 25-10-2012 22:00:01

Re : New Stat - Power (Card and Chain Mechanics Brainstorm)

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