You do NOT need to make better cards to keep players buying cards.
You need to make interesting cards - and stop ruining old cards.
Create new strategies - and stop ruining old strategies.
Change old cards to become viable as well - instead of having 5000 cards out of wich only 500 are useful - work to make the other 4500 useful.

Magic the Gathering releases around 100 cards at a time, all of them carefully balanced.
Eredan releases only 10 at a time, and each release makes a mess of the game.

Be humble and change old and new cards.

If you keep releasing more powerful cards, you will make old cards useless and piss off alot of players that grew attached to certain old decks or cards.
- You make all the cards I got in the past useless.
- You make all the money I spent in the past useless.
- You make me not want to spend any more money.

So stop the power creep or you will see players slow or stop spending money!

Do you think players get bored unless you keep releasing cards? Wrong!
Players get bored because everytime you release decks, you kill old decks - decks they love(d)!
There are only like 5 competitive decks at a time!
That means players are constantly having to throw away decks they took weeks to build!

Players keep asking for stuff that they will regret later.
They are biased. They want their own deck to become better.
They make uninformed complaints.

Filter those complaints and make the necessary changes to make the game fun for everyone, not the select few that spend the most money.
The more fun for everyone the game is, the more players will feel like spending money.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (27-11-2012 23:52:03)

Luxo2011 · 15-11-2012 13:40:15

Sorry guy, i found your post just brilliant before your edit, short but the message was perfectly brought.

After your editing, I just find your tone too agressive, and the real message of the post gets lost...

Nurvus · 15-11-2012 13:41:15

Mmm :S ok I'll re-edit it

Luxo2011 · 15-11-2012 13:43:00

No need to do it because of myself, it's your opinion, if you like to bring the message like this, you are free to do it

Nurvus · 15-11-2012 13:44:31

I think it's better now.
I was pissed. I'm less pissed now.

Caitlyn · 15-11-2012 15:10:58

i think that the elo scores are an indication that fewer people are playing since the game started or at least fewer people bother with elo.

kinda hard to win in some cases without the latest cards, especially the gamebreaking ones that come up occasionally.

i didn't mind the regularity of the card release but they were releasing 10 cards a week or 20 cards per 2 weeks. Seriously, it doesnt really seem feasible to me that you can balance those out in such a short span..

but again, at the end of the day, games like this need money to run, how they want to milk the player base is something should be a part of their strategy

AchDeToni · 15-11-2012 16:43:52

+1

Power creep already made YGO riddiculous and boring, so don't do that same thing with Eredan. I won't give my hopes up, but already saw many TCGs die because of power creep and mismanagement in favor of (short-time) profit. Same thing will happen to Eredan, that's why I only put free feez into this game, never real money.

Surly · 15-11-2012 17:49:00

Honestly, power creep is not bad. What is bad is power creep with only one format. Feerik really needs to release additional weekly tournament formats with different rule sets. Ones that provide a whole different amount of limitations. With a wide variety of competitive formats to choose from, players will use a wide variety of decks.

Power creep only becomes a negative fact in a format when it is like YGO and the game only has one, eternal, format. Eternal formats are fine. Not releasing alternative formats is not.

Releasing, balancing, and testing new formats isn't easy. But its also highly profitable. What if some old rare becomes a chase rare for this new format? I guess you'll sell a lot more guild packs that way. What if people like it more than Amnezy? I guess you'll just have more people playing. Oh, darn. And for people that liked the old system and have already spent buckets of cash? Amnezy is still there!

Multiple formats are nothing but upside, the tournament room has been structured to run multiple tournaments at once, and there is no way they'll do anything but drive up sales and player satisfaction. The only reason I can see for them to not create multiple tournament formats is either being understaffed or sheer laziness.

catcatcat · 15-11-2012 19:08:17

Surly a écrit :

Honestly, power creep is not bad. What is bad is power creep with only one format. Feerik really needs to release additional weekly tournament formats with different rule sets. Ones that provide a whole different amount of limitations. With a wide variety of competitive formats to choose from, players will use a wide variety of decks.
Power creep only becomes a negative fact in a format when it is like YGO and the game only has one, eternal, format. Eternal formats are fine. Not releasing alternative formats is not.
Releasing, balancing, and testing new formats isn't easy. But its also highly profitable. What if some old rare becomes a chase rare for this new format? I guess you'll sell a lot more guild packs that way. What if people like it more than Amnezy? I guess you'll just have more people playing. Oh, darn. And for people that liked the old system and have already spent buckets of cash? Amnezy is still there!
Multiple formats are nothing but upside, the tournament room has been structured to run multiple tournaments at once, and there is no way they'll do anything but drive up sales and player satisfaction. The only reason I can see for them to not create multiple tournament formats is either being understaffed or sheer laziness.

+100000 Cannot agree more with this post. Not just the weekend tournament of the millions either. New formats that either last all week (like amnezy), all day, or for a couple hours.

Gr33n T3rr0r · 15-11-2012 19:41:47

+ 1

Wolvos · 15-11-2012 19:48:40

+1 to nurvus and surly

Teremune · 15-11-2012 23:19:33

+1 To Nurvus and Surly

couldn't agree more with this whole thread.

Nurvus · 16-11-2012 03:27:22

Sorry Surly, but power creep not being bad only happens if you are the kind of player that doesn't get attached to a deck or style and enjoys going with the flow of flavor of the month.

Seeing favorite cards getting trashed week after week is ridiculous.
Seeing OP cards going rampant is ridiculous.
Banning cards is a poor mentality too, when we are talking about an iTCG, not a TCG.
They have the power to change cards.
They have changed cards.
Yet they still defend "not changing cards unless absolutely necessary".

Well it IS absolutely necessary because they don't test them properly.

Wizards of the Coast release around 100 cards per release, and they rarely fail to cover all the angles.
Eredan releases 10 cards and immediately make a mess of the meta.

Surly · 16-11-2012 03:54:06

Nurvus a écrit :

Sorry Surly, but power creep not being bad only happens if you are the kind of player that doesn't get attached to a deck or style and enjoys going with the flow of flavor of the month.

You might have misunderstood. I said powercreep is fine if there is a format where the cards that are worse are still good in. It doesn't matter if they make an overpowered legendary if there is a format people can play in where the legendary isn't legal. And as long as there is a format where the legendary IS legal at the same time, everyone is happy.

MerlinCross · 16-11-2012 09:05:02

About YGO. It's a funny game. When I first picked it up, it ended about hmm 10 turns onward. Now? Lucky to get that far as a good potion of the decks are made to set up the win on the first turn if not win it.

Feerik however, has actually beat them out, with the winner being able to be decided the moment the game starts. Having characters x, y, and z when the other guy is running characters a, b, and c means you've lost already.

Power creep in my book.

ColdAvril · 16-11-2012 15:12:35

uh or not...it's always been like that in tcg, some decks beat other deck (like in rock-paper-scissor) even in magic the gathering who's considered to be a very well done and balanced game you can forfeit some match-up (or you need to be very lucky).

Bad match-ups have nothing to do with power-creep. All decks can't be equally strong against every other decks...

MrLordi92 · 16-11-2012 17:58:27

ColdAvril a écrit :

uh or not...it's always been like that in tcg, some decks beat other deck (like in rock-paper-scissor) even in magic the gathering who's considered to be a very well done and balanced game you can forfeit some match-up (or you need to be very lucky).
Bad match-ups have nothing to do with power-creep. All decks can't be equally strong against every other decks...

+1

The whole Rocks-Paper-Scissors comparison has been used for trading card games for years. It holds true for Eredan iTCG, too. It's also a matter of luck to beat a deck. Lets say you're plying against Noz Blast, and you don't draw your Magic Shield, or whatever you're using to counter them. It's not power creep or overpowered cards that killed your characters, it was not drawing the right cards.

MerlinCross · 16-11-2012 20:36:53

MrLordi92 a écrit :

+1
The whole Rocks-Paper-Scissors comparison has been used for trading card games for years. It holds true for Eredan iTCG, too. It's also a matter of luck to beat a deck. Lets say you're plying against Noz Blast, and you don't draw your Magic Shield, or whatever you're using to counter them. It's not power creep or overpowered cards that killed your characters, it was not drawing the right cards.

While I agree with the rock paper scissors comparison, that's my point. Why should I try playing my rock deck when I see first turn that' he's running paper?

Or, on the subject of power creep, why should I play my rock deck, when his rock deck is bigger than mine? Rock doesn't counter rock, but his rock is bigger. And I'm starting to lose that analogy.

Nurvus · 16-11-2012 21:04:35

Surly a écrit :

Nurvus a écrit :
Sorry Surly, but power creep not being bad only happens if you are the kind of player that doesn't get attached to a deck or style and enjoys going with the flow of flavor of the month.
You might have misunderstood. I said powercreep is fine if there is a format where the cards that are worse are still good in. It doesn't matter if they make an overpowered legendary if there is a format people can play in where the legendary isn't legal. And as long as there is a format where the legendary IS legal at the same time, everyone is happy.

And I'm saying there should never be ANY format where playing OP cards is fine.
Ever.
And one of the big reasons is below:

MerlinCross a écrit :

About YGO. It's a funny game. When I first picked it up, it ended about hmm 10 turns onward. Now? Lucky to get that far as a good potion of the decks are made to set up the win on the first turn if not win it.
Feerik however, has actually beat them out, with the winner being able to be decided the moment the game starts. Having characters x, y, and z when the other guy is running characters a, b, and c means you've lost already.
Power creep in my book.

That's exactly one of the worst problems.
The moment you start it's decided you'll lose.
That, in any game, is incredibly bad design.

For Eredan to ever be truly fun in a way that will bring alot more players to invest in it, the battles need to always feel like there's hope on both sides (assuming the decks are somewhat equivalent in "competitivity").
The battles need to always feel like if you outwit your opponent, you can win.
That you can turn a loss into a win, sometimes.

But that's incredibly rare in Eredan.
95% of the games are decided with the starting hand.

And when it's decided you're going to lose the moment you see the opposing characters and your hand, where's the fun to stay in the battle? Players quit.

It's a [card]Vicious Circle[/card].

Dernière modification par Nurvus (16-11-2012 21:11:17)

HurricaneMambo · 17-11-2012 23:56:18

Nurvus, I've been stalking your posts and topics for a while and I can't understand why Feerik hasn't put you under their employ as a consultant.

Brilliant posts, mate. Keep doing what you do. YOU will change this game for the better. Just give it some time. People will hear you and Feerik will hear the people.

skadooosh · 18-11-2012 11:37:43

HurricaneMambo a écrit :

Nurvus, I've been stalking your posts and topics for a while and I can't understand why Feerik hasn't put you under their employ as a consultant.

+1
And even If I sometimes disagree with him, he has awesome Ideas...!

Damncaster · 20-11-2012 00:42:12

I agree with all Nurvus says... I went crazy when they started to release guild legends after Iro... i keep mine because i really like him but lets face it he can´t compete with the others if not the latest legendary characters TT^TT. I play Eredan since almost the beggining, where u could see zil marauder, noz blast and kotoba imperial, imperials where my favourites since i started to play and they actually were good but where are they now (?)...

Teremune · 20-11-2012 04:48:14

Nurvus a écrit :

For Eredan to ever be truly fun in a way that will bring alot more players to invest in it, the battles need to always feel like there's hope on both sides (assuming the decks are somewhat equivalent in "competitivity").
The battles need to always feel like if you outwit your opponent, you can win.
That you can turn a loss into a win, sometimes.
But that's incredibly rare in Eredan.
95% of the games are decided with the starting hand.

I dunno I turn losses into wins more often than not, unless it's Oreo...which I've only beaten like 4 times, but I do understand what you're saying, instead of of making more powerful characters, cards and such, they should make ways of using past present and future cards in more thought out ways....or am I missing something??

I am pretty dense...so if I'm missing something let me know...

Calandra · 20-11-2012 07:42:05

Nurvus a écrit :

For Eredan to ever be truly fun in a way that will bring alot more players to invest in it, the battles need to always feel like there's hope on both sides (assuming the decks are somewhat equivalent in "competitivity").
The battles need to always feel like if you outwit your opponent, you can win.
That you can turn a loss into a win, sometimes.
But that's incredibly rare in Eredan.
95% of the games are decided with the starting hand.
And when it's decided you're going to lose the moment you see the opposing characters and your hand, where's the fun to stay in the battle? Players quit.

i m a bit wondering in how far you expect eredan to be different from other card games... when i was playing a card game in high school the starting hand of my 60 cards deck was also telling me whether i have a chance for a smooth win or a hard struggle... after the 2nd round i could clearly see whether my chances increased or dropped to zero

in a digital version of that game where i would face annoymous enemies all the time i was tempted to leave those 'predictable' fights as well, wouldnt i?

another thing... if you always have to have the feeling that you can outwit your enemy and turn a hopeless fight around and win... i wonder how to achieve that without the use of the allmighty OP keycard... so if i always have to have a chance on winning but 95% of my deck is crap against my enemy i have to rely on OP cards that are broken like whatnot....

everything else would mean to turn back time till the moment of creation and never ever let these OP cards appear... which would most likly result in no-more-than-3-cards-releases each week

thing in a card game is: your deck is able to stand up to the majority... or its not... if its not... dont bother and leave rather then be unfair and leave before the enemy gets a perfect... if you decide to play then play till its over!

Damncaster · 20-11-2012 09:39:45

It´s not about every deck beating every deck, it´s about making cards equaly strong and updated, make stuff like in ***bip*** face usable again. (lol i don´t remember using it)

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 15-11-2012 13:28:56

Thoughts for Feerik

#2 15-11-2012 13:40:15

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#3 15-11-2012 13:41:15

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#4 15-11-2012 13:43:00

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#5 15-11-2012 13:44:31

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#6 15-11-2012 15:10:58

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#7 15-11-2012 16:43:52

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#8 15-11-2012 17:49:00

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#9 15-11-2012 19:08:17

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#10 15-11-2012 19:41:47

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#11 15-11-2012 19:48:40

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#12 15-11-2012 23:19:33

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#13 16-11-2012 03:27:22

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#14 16-11-2012 03:54:06

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#15 16-11-2012 09:05:02

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#16 16-11-2012 15:12:35

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#17 16-11-2012 17:58:27

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#18 16-11-2012 20:36:53

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#19 16-11-2012 21:04:35

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#20 17-11-2012 23:56:18

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#21 18-11-2012 11:37:43

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#22 20-11-2012 00:42:12

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#23 20-11-2012 04:48:14

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#24 20-11-2012 07:42:05

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

#25 20-11-2012 09:39:45

Re : Thoughts for Feerik

Pied de page des forums