Now I don't want to upset the apple cart here - I think the boosters are over priced for a digital only game but......I don't agree with this "everything should be free attitude" that is the Internet nowadays. If I go to the cinema or read a book I expect to pay for the entertainment I have received. The same goes for this game. Feerik provides almost constant new updates and original material that keeps me playing and I enjoy the 3-4 hours a week I play. These people need to earn a living and feed their families, why should we get it for free?

I think it is the nature of TGCs that you pay for new material - I think it's overpriced with no physical distribution to worry about, but we should accept that the makers should get paid to produce something we enjoy playing!?

Nurvus · 03-09-2012 22:09:21

Stormholt a écrit :

Nurvus a écrit :
If Feerik makes boosters cost 50% of what they do now, I'm fairly positive we'll see almost 10x more players online.
That's just an example of how narrow-minded they seem to be.
Feerik seems too focused on pleasing the big whales that spend loads of cash in the game, and forget they could be making alot more money if they made the game cheaper, because it would attract 10x, 20x the amount of players.
No, cutting the prices is not the focus here, this still will make the game payable, what we are proposing here, is to make the game free, REAL FOR FREE, i mean free and playable, a deck that can win of others...

I never said the focus is cutting prices.
I am just pointing out something as simple as booster prices causing Feerik to lose alot of money from ALOT of potential players just to gain some extra money out of a FEW players.

Damncaster · 03-09-2012 22:55:00

I f the boosters where 200 feez i´d buy feez more often...

MerlinCross · 04-09-2012 07:53:42

soxford a écrit :

Now I don't want to upset the apple cart here - I think the boosters are over priced for a digital only game but......I don't agree with this "everything should be free attitude" that is the Internet nowadays. If I go to the cinema or read a book I expect to pay for the entertainment I have received. The same goes for this game. Feerik provides almost constant new updates and original material that keeps me playing and I enjoy the 3-4 hours a week I play. These people need to earn a living and feed their families, why should we get it for free?
I think it is the nature of TGCs that you pay for new material - I think it's overpriced with no physical distribution to worry about, but we should accept that the makers should get paid to produce something we enjoy playing!?

I have two complaints with what you're saying, and I'll address the easier of the two first.

Why should I pay if I'm not having fun? If paying is the only way to have fun then I'm not paying/moving on to a different game. I think most people would take that train of thought.

As for the other one, yes they make a product and support it, and yes they do this to make a living. But I don't like I'm being treated fairly for playing for free. Do I want everything free? Of course not. Nor do I want to gip the paying players. All I want is for the steep cliff for free to play guys like myself to be smoothed out a bit more. The Market costs are quite high along with everything in the cash shop. And while this is a trend with card based games, the cash shop sells out right power. Unless players pay for cards, they will be left in the dust. One could say the same about Magic but Feerik says you can earn free cards by playing adventure mode. Adventure mode that only really has one questline that new players can win at and cards that they can't use yet nor sell. Such as earning a card that only the Avalonians can use, all of which are expensive or the cards used to upgrade them are.

No game can ever be truely free to play. But the ways Feerik seem to have more cons then pros.

If you guys are up to it, here's a vid about the subject. http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions .

Dernière modification par MerlinCross (04-09-2012 07:54:59)

soxford · 04-09-2012 10:30:30

What about adding additional deck formats in PvP like common cards only? This would allow free players to compete on a more level playing field.
I also think it should be possible to trade/swap the cards gained from adventure mode to allow people to build decks they want. I have 10 of some cards and can't get rid of them.

MerlinCross · 08-09-2012 03:04:04

Get to adventure quest boss. Spam favors. Still lose.

Guess I have to buy actual cards as well if I want to play adventure.

iQuit · 08-09-2012 03:13:48

MerlinCross a écrit :

Get to adventure quest boss. Spam favors. Still lose.
Guess I have to buy actual cards as well if I want to play adventure.

Nope , you have to build a specific to take down bosses in adventure mode . That is why that sucks unless you are using that deck for pvp as well .

Why the hell do i have to build a nehant mage deck to fight bosses but the reward doesn't worth it ?

This is very , very wrong . Feerik really needs to give better rewards or nerf the guild bosses

Dernière modification par iQuit (08-09-2012 03:16:14)

Damncaster · 08-09-2012 06:58:31

iQuit a écrit :

MerlinCross a écrit :
Get to adventure quest boss. Spam favors. Still lose.
Guess I have to buy actual cards as well if I want to play adventure.
Nope , you have to build a specific to take down bosses in adventure mode . That is why that sucks unless you are using that deck for pvp as well .
Why the hell do i have to build a nehant mage deck to fight bosses but the reward doesn't worth it ?

This is very , very wrong . Feerik really needs to give better rewards or nerf the guild bosses

Nerf the bosses u.u

IronMask · 08-09-2012 12:43:33

you don't understand the meaning of hard work

Calandra · 08-09-2012 14:24:21

IronMask a écrit :

you don't understand the meaning of hard work

lol its a game and it shouldnt be considered 'hard work' but i know what you mean... on the other hand... feerik is a free to play browser game... i m not sure whether merlincross fully is aware of what it actually means...

imagine you are the game designer and the idea of your game is appreciated by a whole bunch of players and of course you want to have as many players as possible but... you need some things to provide the game...

-servers cost money
-a staff that wants salaries
-creative teams and designing ppl as well as the ppl who put it in flesh (well... bytes)

also...

-you will need food
-clothes
-a warm place you can call home

these things cost money as well and unless you ask the community to pay an amount they can decide for themselves you will be only eating the flies from the wall and wont be able to change your undies ever...

so even though the game is free... some parts need to ask money to make the developers able to live! of course the money will put the buyer into a position where he gets benefits others dont have...

Adventure mode for example is not meant to be a fully free thing for everybody to enjoy and beat everything with one deck and blah whatnot... its rather a challenge for players that indeed are willing to support the team with hard cash...

so all this whinning about 'i m not able to beat all of these missions because i dont have this and that deck/card/whatnot is somehow senseless because nothing will change the fact that the ppl behind the game need money to live...

as an afterthought... imagine they wouldnt ask the money... they would need other jobs and prolly could only work in their freetime to organize the game... which would result in less bugfixes, less releases, less events... simply said... in less quality

Spify · 10-09-2012 12:40:01

Calandra, nobody is saying that Feerik should be paid or they shouldn't make a profit out of this game.
Making games is a business and as any business it runs on profits. The discussion at hand here is the business model itself or the business model Feerik tries to mimic (aka FTP).
The FTP model can be very successful and some people here gave some excellent examples (LOL, TF2 etc). These two games are very good examples because:
- You don't have to pay a dime to play them
- In terms of gameplay the paying customers have no advantage over the FTP ones. The paying customers are buying hats, skins and whatnot which makes no difference in terms of gameplay.
- They are probably making millions of $ in terms of profit.

Then you ask yourself how do they do it? What's the key behind the FTP success?

This is my opinion:
- First of all you need a decent quality game to work with. If you build a shitty game, nobody will play it even if it's free. For this point I believe Eredan qualifies. It has very cool graphics, solid gameplay, diverse decks, big (and increasing) number of cards. So the content is there and in the process of getting better.
- Next you need a player base. The bigger the better. Last time I checked, LOL had a 45 million player base if the memory serves me right.
How do you do this?
Decent game + FTP + a decent amount of marketing = increasing number of players. But here is the point which makes the difference between successful games and wannabe clones (and the point where Eredan fails imo): Many people will come and try your game but when they realize that it's actually impossible to play the game unless you pay (in other words FTP was marketing bullshit) because otherwise the paying guys with super-decks full of legendaries just wipe the floor with you, that's where the newcomers say "No thank you" and leave even if they enjoyed the game up to that point.
In order to build up the player base it is essential to be almost no difference in terms of gameplay between the paying customers and the FTP customers. When you create a wall between the two groups, you end up with 2 millions subscribers, 500.000 actually playing, maybe 50.000 actually paying, a mediocre success and you will be the same as 287389218761 other games out there on the interwebz, struggling to get more money from those 50000 players that invest something in you game.
I believe Nurvus was making a very good point: Eredan should try to get less money from an increasing playerbase instead of trying to get more money from a decreasing playerbase.
This is how you end up selling hats and skins and make huge profits out of it.

Long story short: We all agree that they need money/profits to exist. Some of us are just saying that your business model is not right and in some cases it feel outright greedy which I don't think it's healthy for you.

Zurga · 10-09-2012 12:56:47

I have some trouble with your comment spify.
You present some of your points that makes the game is not a free to play.
I don't argue with you on this.

The point that bother me is the "because otherwise the paying guys with super-decks full of legendaries just wipe the floor with you"
The cards are the same for all, there is no advantages for one player upon another.
The advantage is to have these cards, but you can't explain that this is unfair to have theses cards in the game.

If you spoke about the paying event, about event character that crush some decks, OK, we could agree.

But for the legendary, I don't see your point.

If you think it is because of price on market, I answer you that the prices are done by sellers, so by the players. And they always complain about the poor prices they have for their cards.
It is not matter of Feerik for that part.

In my humble opinion, there is no unfair advantages to be a free player compared to others players.
With time and perseverance you can achieve a lot even as a free player.
If you want and believe that in 2 days you do the same things that paying players and you can have a complete collection, of course you're wrong.

Spify · 10-09-2012 13:24:36

Oh, come on, don't pick on the random example I gave. I can start giving other examples that were given in the whole thread but I believe it's pointless.
Make the newcomer feel that he can actually play AND ENJOY this game as a FTP player.
In the current state, this is not the feeling one gets. At level 12 (or even earlier) you hit a wall. Playing with old timers who invested in the game make you feel like shit, brings a lot of frustration, you feel like a punchbag. If this is the message that you wanna send out to the newcomers, you are doing it wrong. You say with time and perseverance you can do a lot. You are wrong again. This is not my second job, I don't wanna spend 10 hours per day farming. I want to come here a few hours and enjoy the time I spend here. Not being a punchbag, not farming the shit out of the adventure mode (eventually the same fight over and over again). And don't forget that even for adventure mode, you still need few decks actually. Your starting decks won't get you far.

Btw, I invested a little in this game, not much but enough to get me started. I am not a FTP player so in a way I could say that the problems of FTP guys don't concern me. I am more concerned about your financial health and a healthy game environment. I would be very happy to see more than 800 players connected on average and it would be awesome if actually half of them wouldn't be farming adventure mode and would be actually fighting me in pvp. It's sad to go in level room and having only 3 opponents available at some point...

And also...It's no joy to beat the shit out of a starting deck either...

Dernière modification par Spify (10-09-2012 13:40:49)

Zurga · 10-09-2012 13:52:34

It's not a random example, it is your only example...
You build your argumentation on this.
You speak of unfair advantage and you don't explain what you mean by this.

Could you give me the name of a card games where a newbie can win the top tournament with his starting deck ?

Spify · 10-09-2012 14:25:03

I was saying that I gave a random example(out of many possible).

My argument was about this thread and topic in general. If you really need me to point out the problems, I can look in this thread (and others) and copy-paste the examples.

No, I can't give you a name of a card game where a newbie can win the top tournament. (You say newbie but prolly you were thinking of FTP players which is not necessarily equivalent.) I never said that, I never thought of that but now that I do....yeah, why not. A FTP player should have the chance to win a tournament(if he has the knowledge).

Can you give me the name of a virtual TCG with 45+ million playerbase and awesome financial profits? Prolly not. Why not? Because the usual business model in TCG targets/attracts only the hardcore fans. The rest will stay out.

It takes guts to challenge the systems that are in place but if you do, if you come up with something new, something different from the rest of the virtual TCGs, you could be a new World Of Warcraft / Blizzard, Google, Apple or whatever trend-setters are out there that had the vision to do something different.

If your goal is to be just like the rest of the TCGs, then enjoy your mediocrity.

Dernière modification par Spify (10-09-2012 14:29:32)

iQuit · 10-09-2012 14:28:14

Zurga a écrit :

In my humble opinion, there is no unfair advantages to be a free player compared to others players.
With time and perseverance you can achieve a lot even as a free player.
If you want and believe that in 2 days you do the same things that paying players and you can have a complete collection, of course you're wrong.

i would agree with this if eredan was a mmorpg or fps .

why ? because the limited number of decks ppl can have , ok there is no such thing called deck limit in the game but it is about the money ( time if you are a free player ) . And using the same deck and the same strategy over and over again for hours just to grind the same thing makes you bored easily .

The point that bother me is the "because otherwise the paying guys with super-decks full of legendaries just wipe the floor with you"

it should be : " because otherwise the paying guy with completed and competitive deck just wipe the floor with your uncompleted deck "

If you think it is because of price on market, I answer you that the prices are done by sellers, so by the players. And they always complain about the poor prices they have for their cards.
It is not matter of Feerik for that part.

Many , many decks are expensive just because 1-3 cards are just overpriced , some can be used as filters but the deck will be just for fun
But Feerik can fix it , see[card] Quickdraw[/card] ? It was 40k , just very expensive until Feerik hit it hard by putting it in the starter booster and gives elfine [card]Briskness [/card] , [card]Dark Fury[/card] is another example .
The card's price is controlled by the players but when it goes wrong , Feerik still can do something

well i agree with most of ideas , we want to see more players who can get into the game and can keep up playing . I made a thread about the game on my country's game forum and most people couldn't keep playing after making their 2nd deck , it just took so much time, money and effort to get the cards

Dernière modification par iQuit (10-09-2012 14:51:30)

Calandra · 10-09-2012 15:25:42

i still dont see any point in all of these last few comments... there is noone forcing you to buy anything... basically you can play the whole game totally free without paying anything but your own electricity and internet bill...

the thing that some ppl call pressure to pay (aka force) is just a subjective desire of wanting to stay at the top but it is everywhere (i m not just talking about games right now) the very same... you want to be the best in sports so go invest more time in training and money in coaches... you want to be the best in your job so go and work more then others and get further diploma to increase your qualities... you want to be best in school so go and invest more time in learning and prolly pay some private teachers... you want to be the best in feerik so go and pay a lot to get the cards you need to do what you want to... BUT all of these are individual choices made by you... there is noone saying 'you NEED this and that to be competitive' ... so the whole thing is totally obsolete...

Feerik says and always did so: this game is free to play... and you are playing it free... it is your own choice to pay... and my only point here is that to keep up some quality for everyone they have to ask money from a few who are willing to pay and get the tiny bit extra to provide the base to maintain or increase quality...

Darken Rahl · 10-09-2012 15:42:48

Calandra a écrit :

i still dont see any point in all of these last few comments... there is noone forcing you to buy anything... basically you can play the whole game totally free without paying anything but your own electricity and internet bill...
the thing that some ppl call pressure to pay (aka force) is just a subjective desire of wanting to stay at the top but it is everywhere (i m not just talking about games right now) the very same... you want to be the best in sports so go invest more time in training and money in coaches... you want to be the best in your job so go and work more then others and get further diploma to increase your qualities... you want to be best in school so go and invest more time in learning and prolly pay some private teachers... you want to be the best in feerik so go and pay a lot to get the cards you need to do what you want to... BUT all of these are individual choices made by you... there is noone saying 'you NEED this and that to be competitive' ... so the whole thing is totally obsolete...
Feerik says and always did so: this game is free to play... and you are playing it free... it is your own choice to pay... and my only point here is that to keep up some quality for everyone they have to ask money from a few who are willing to pay and get the tiny bit extra to provide the base to maintain or increase quality...

I have been playing since near the begining of eredan and i'm more of a ftp person and i think the biggest change that has hurt the ftp player base is when to buy or sell on the market you need to purchase a pack..

Zurga · 10-09-2012 16:07:11

Darken Rahl a écrit :

I have been playing since near the begining of eredan and i'm more of a ftp person and i think the biggest change that has hurt the ftp player base is when to buy or sell on the market you need to purchase a pack..

Wrong example, this rule never changed.

magius · 10-09-2012 16:07:34

Darken Rahl a écrit :

I have been playing since near the begining of eredan and i'm more of a ftp person and i think the biggest change that has hurt the ftp player base is when to buy or sell on the market you need to purchase a pack..

Correction here. You can buy and sell in marketplace even if you buy an Adventure Favour that costs 12 Feez.

You don't really need to buy a pack. But buying a pack will allow you to have more cards to sell.

Dernière modification par magius (10-09-2012 16:31:27)

SamsonXL · 10-09-2012 16:10:31

Darken Rahl a écrit :

I have been playing since near the begining of eredan and i'm more of a ftp person and i think the biggest change that has hurt the ftp player base is when to buy or sell on the market you need to purchase a pack..

I can't believe how often i have to read this ...*bleep*.
You can buy anything in the market as long as you have enough crystals to afford it, that's how it worked since i started playing 2 years ago.
To sell anything at the market you have to spend Feez, that's how it worked since i started playing 2 years ago.
No changes at all in this time, someone playing for such a long time should know this pretty well.

edit: Oops there were some guys faster than me.

Dernière modification par SamsonXL (10-09-2012 16:11:19)

Teremune · 11-09-2012 08:22:49

SamsonXL a écrit :

Darken Rahl a écrit :
I have been playing since near the begining of eredan and i'm more of a ftp person and i think the biggest change that has hurt the ftp player base is when to buy or sell on the market you need to purchase a pack..
I can't believe how often i have to read this ...*bleep*.
You can buy anything in the market as long as you have enough crystals to afford it, that's how it worked since i started playing 2 years ago.
To sell anything at the market you have to spend Feez, that's how it worked since i started playing 2 years ago.
No changes at all in this time, someone playing for such a long time should know this pretty well.
edit: Oops there were some guys faster than me.

Yeah the ability to buy and sell seems the same since I started playing since the middle of act II. and I didn't know you could sell if you bought adventure mode favor's??? maybe I can get some friends to play again now hehehe.

Nurvus · 11-09-2012 10:48:13

The problem with overpriced cards is the newcomers booster.

Old cards get less and less purchased and become more expensive as time goes on, at least the old cards that still get used, like Solaris, Quick Draw, etc.

MerlinCross · 12-09-2012 05:13:31

Calandra a écrit :

the thing that some ppl call pressure to pay (aka force) is just a subjective desire of wanting to stay at the top but it is everywhere (i m not just talking about games right now) the very same... you want to be the best in sports so go invest more time in training and money in coaches... you want to be the best in your job so go and work more then others and get further diploma to increase your qualities... you want to be best in school so go and invest more time in learning and prolly pay some private teachers... you want to be the best in feerik so go and pay a lot to get the cards you need to do what you want to... BUT all of these are individual choices made by you... there is noone saying 'you NEED this and that to be competitive' ... so the whole thing is totally obsolete...
Feerik says and always did so: this game is free to play... and you are playing it free... it is your own choice to pay... and my only point here is that to keep up some quality for everyone they have to ask money from a few who are willing to pay and get the tiny bit extra to provide the base to maintain or increase quality...

You agree with me. You need to pay to be competitive. You want to play competitive, pay for the right to do so. You want to be good at competitive play, pay for the cards to keep up.

You want to do this without paying? Say goodbye to the next year of your life and any other games you may have been playing. Oh but then we'll have made a bunch of new 'power creeped' cards that you will need if you want to be competitive.

Subjective Desire has nothing to do with it. You want to keep up you have to pay. You want to play AT ALL, you have to pay. Otherwise you will get your sad beginning decks handed to you all day long.

Dernière modification par MerlinCross (12-09-2012 05:14:07)

Eredan's World

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#26 03-09-2012 16:40:34

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#27 03-09-2012 21:46:11

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