Eredan's World

Stormholt · 27-07-2012 13:02:47

Well hello! I opened this topic, to discuss something really good, but that feerik dont care so much: Arena of The border...

First: why players go to the Arena of the border?

Becuz it's the only way to win something, lets be serious, its impossible to win the ELO without some friends or if you got a life, so arena of the border is a good way to win something, players WANT to win, i saw a lot of players, that give up the game, becuz it's boring, or becuz it dont let you get the "Winning feeling"... Arena of Border could look like a shitty tournament, but it's really nice, but there's a lot of problems, that are on the next topics:

Second: Restrictions

One of the main problems about Arena of The Border, is that it got no restriction, that's really unfair, becuz you see all the kind of OP decks there, for example, in time that ecstasis was banned from ELO, it wasn't from AOB(Arena of border), so all the top decks on AOB, was ecstasis, this is really bad... Now it's the Freaking Compedium Secret and Killicrew, they banned it on ELO, but if you to the AOB tournament, you see no Bans...

Third: Time

Well the Arena of border, used to got 1h of duration, it was a FAIR and good time, WHY? After 30 minutes, the players dont play anymore, or they give up, or they got a good ELO, so they dont take the risk to loose it all, so, there's not why to make the tournament an so small time.

Fourth: Level

Wt r u talkin' bout N'ta? Well, as it got new players, that want some fun, you guys could do 2 torunaments instead of 1(These Arena of Guilds Sucks, no one EVER played that EVER!) I know that looks crazy but think, level +18 players are already experienced players, they destroy real hard the lv -17 decks, so why dont make a arena only for Players 18+ and another one to players -17? Yea, it seems very weird, but well i do belive that i was lv 17, i would like a LOT!

Final Considerations:

Well eredan is not the way it was before, Lets beign serious, before, you could have Golemarlok/Abomination Telendar and Shadow, and your deck would got a good position on ELO/AOB, well the times have changed, and some cards are not so OP as before, and well the bad thing, is that players Know that, and they see that... Players go play a game to fun, there's no fun in loosing(or winning aganist a PC), players can go into the level room, but you cant get any thophy... Arena of Border is a good way to recover the love of some players...

WELL PLEASE, I REALLY WISH TO FEERIK TO READ EVERYTHING, AND PLEASE GIVE ME A FEEDBACK, SAY IF LIKE IT OR NOT.

And i want your opnion too, i opened a pool, vote, and coment, Thaks for the attention

Do Want the Arena of The Border To Change?

Yes, i Agreed with all
Yes, but i dont agreed with all
No.

Votes totaux: 13

Les résultats du sondage sont masqués pour les invités

Dernière modification par Stormholt (27-07-2012 13:03:19)

Nessaj · 28-07-2012 00:03:20

Man, I have to agree with you on most lines.

The winning "feeling" is needed everywhere to keep things interesting and motivated. Let's take as an example any company you work in RL, sometimes it's good to get a bonus for that good software you've developed, even if it was not the best ever.

Arena rewards could be changed a bit. We could have a winner of the arena and a winner for each guild, the prize for the guild champion could be minor, like some crystals and a random non-rare card from your guild.

Make more Arena championships. Maybe only a 30 minutes interval between two tournments with some different rules than MOST-ELO-POINTS-WIN, like the champion is the one with most victories (benefiting an aggro deck championship), or one with the most number of turns survived in play (up to 8 points per fight, to prevent friendship-games, benefiting control decks), and so on. Another one that the 4 first players fight to death, 1st against 4th, and 2nd against 3rd, both winners fight each other to find out the chamipon.

Old cards are not much playable anymore because of the new OP cards and power creep. But it's purely for selling purposes. New cards must be OP to sell, than nerf it and bring more OP cards. Unhappily this is something we can never change, and those cards we enjoyed to play are simply not viable now.

Dernière modification par Nessaj (28-07-2012 00:06:19)

Stormholt · 28-07-2012 00:53:37

Well, i tinked too about making better prizes but well, there's a problem, it could have another monopoly, just like is the ELO, i mean, rich getting richer and poor getting poorer... So i think that a restriction, like, you participe only 1 or 2 times per day, it would be nice...

Nurvus · 28-07-2012 02:27:53

Nessaj a écrit :

Old cards are not much playable anymore because of the new OP cards and power creep. But it's purely for selling purposes. New cards must be OP to sell, than nerf it and bring more OP cards. Unhappily this is something we can never change, and those cards we enjoyed to play are simply not viable now.

Sorry but that is complete bullshit.

Don't make it sound like they don't have a choice.
Only bad designers don't have a choice, because they're bad.

Feerik doesn't need to make OP cards to sell.
It's the other way around.
OP releases that make old cards obsolete risk making players stop giving a damn about the game.
Because whatever awesome card I get today may be useless in a few months.

There are many ways to keep players interested without power creep.

What Feerik needs to do is release cards that combo with existing cards, producing slightly stronger results to balance weak decks.
Feerik does not need to release outright retarded cards with insane stats/effects.

This game would be selling the highest if Feerik focused on making as many deck concepts competitive as possible.

If they get a few more Euros from an OP release only to lose players a few months later, it's not exactly a good deal.

Statistics are only as good as interpretation, and that is why 90% of the MMO companies, who have idiots calling the shots based on psychological theories and statistics, make games that die in a few months.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (28-07-2012 02:50:26)

Teremune · 28-07-2012 03:42:05

Nurvus a écrit :

Nessaj a écrit :
Old cards are not much playable anymore because of the new OP cards and power creep. But it's purely for selling purposes. New cards must be OP to sell, than nerf it and bring more OP cards. Unhappily this is something we can never change, and those cards we enjoyed to play are simply not viable now.
Sorry but that is complete bullshit.
Don't make it sound like they don't have a choice.
Only bad designers don't have a choice, because they're bad.
Feerik doesn't need to make OP cards to sell.
It's the other way around.
OP releases that make old cards obsolete risk making players stop giving a damn about the game.
Because whatever awesome card I get today may be useless in a few months.
There are many ways to keep players interested without power creep.
What Feerik needs to do is release cards that combo with existing cards, producing slightly stronger results to balance weak decks.
Feerik does not need to release outright retarded cards with insane stats/effects.
This game would be selling the highest if Feerik focused on making as many deck concepts competitive as possible.
If they get a few more Euros from an OP release only to lose players a few months later, it's not exactly a good deal.
Statistics are only as good as interpretation, and that is why 90% of the MMO companies, who have idiots calling the shots based on psychological theories and statistics, make games that die in a few months.

Think I'd have to agree with this...I have been considering quitting because i can't afford to keep up with how the decks are going...I'm spending money i really shouldn't on this game. close to 1/4th my monthly income for the last couple of months to keep up. I was happy with one or two boosters a week, but with it hard to get the cards i need and VERY hard to get Good selling cards to buy cards that compete with...but even then I've not even managed to break 1600 ELO I get so close then next thing i know i'm below 1500. sorry drifting off topic. well anyways I agree with setting up tournaments with level restrictions, would level things out slightly. aside from those who can afford to buy early in the game, well i'll still have fun for now.

rutse · 29-07-2012 18:21:13

Teremune a écrit :

Think I'd have to agree with this...I have been considering quitting because i can't afford to keep up with how the decks are going...I'm spending money i really shouldn't on this game. close to 1/4th my monthly income for the last couple of months to keep up. I was happy with one or two boosters a week, but with it hard to get the cards i need and VERY hard to get Good selling cards to buy cards that compete with...but even then I've not even managed to break 1600 ELO I get so close then next thing i know i'm below 1500. sorry drifting off topic. well anyways I agree with setting up tournaments with level restrictions, would level things out slightly. aside from those who can afford to buy early in the game, well i'll still have fun for now.

Me too. I simply cannot keep affording that many new OP cards. For that I stopped a long time ago playing ELO. It's not fu nanymore, all I see are the new Zil, Packs and Saps everywhere owning everything without even giving a chance to setup cards.

This time I stopped at ~1730 ELO with my Lords of the Ruins deck, and after this position I couldn't even setup my cards because everything one-shot me.

Nurvus · 29-07-2012 20:43:44

rutse a écrit :

I simply cannot keep affording that many new OP cards. For that I stopped a long time ago playing ELO. It's not fu nanymore, all I see are the new Zil, Packs and Saps everywhere owning everything without even giving a chance to setup cards.

So you complain about "cry-me-a-river" threads in my thread, and then come do your own "cry-me-a-river" in someone else's thread.
Talk about hipocrite.

skadooosh · 29-07-2012 20:50:40

Nurvus a écrit :

So you complain about "cry-me-a-river" threads in my thread, and then come do your own "cry-me-a-river" in someone else's thread.
Talk about hipocrite.

I was about to say the exact same thing XD

Stormholt · 01-08-2012 20:33:55

Uping in here, this topic is polemic.

I want a answer, if feerik could do

Damncaster · 02-08-2012 01:27:17

Some of my caln friends that played this long time ago like 2 years are giving up because they can´t keep up the game , we must be serious if u whant to play u need to pay because no one wanna loose almost everytime...

hitomo · 07-08-2012 20:37:57

Hey ... I admit, I had stoped caring about eredan because of that 'always loosing' feeling ...

but it is one of the best TC.game.concepts ever made ...

the bad thing is we live in the time of free.to.play games, wich are ofc pay.to.win games ... thats what ELO is all about ... this is for the people who can put money
simply to become one of the best on the ranking.list ...

this is straight and competetive pvp ... something people are willing to spend real money for

in this enviornment it must be possible to become one of the best (simply) by
spending enough money -> OP.card.carussel

I am not judging this. Thats simply how this business model works

I myself have a few neat and niffty decks, with nice strategy and metagame,
but despite being very good in the level-room, they barely stand a chance on
the lowest level of the ELO tournament ...

Like someone else mentioned, what you notice is, that in the competetion, decks
that run on a strategy wich requires some form of set-up are getting totaly
destroyed by high-damage (direct, indirect, zone) in the first few rounds

but that has nothing to do with incapable designers, like said above, this
focus on high damage and op decks is the core of the business model ...

you couldnt make a cardgame like Magic F2P for instance ... all strategys
available through different deck set ups are competetive if played smart
enough (20-30% luck)

I like eredan more then the very academic magic
but here it is clearly a balance between the strategy focused and the
OP deck focused model of designing such game.system ...

in fact I do not know a single F2P game that managed to keep that
balance ... but as long as playing in the level room is fun and affordable
and somekind seperated from the hardcore players and there OP decks,
the game stays enjoyable

Dhaonrisemlan · 07-08-2012 20:49:11

Elements the game is a free card game that has no element of paying for premium content. Still Eredan is more fun

Stormholt · 07-08-2012 21:28:51

Yea, eredan its the best trading card game i ever seen, its easy and fun to play, but well, there's a lot of injustice... The politic "free to play, pay to win" is the main problem, ask EVERYONE who left eredan, they will say that they leave becuz it is a capitalist game... Feerik made a new tutorial to make players stay on eredan(come on i know that you guys did it) but new players want to play for free, and everyone want, well i mean, you can play for free, but you need pay to win, THIS is the main error of feerik, until they do not fix this paradox, this game will not grow, sorry for the sincerity, but its the true.

I am not a man trained in marketing, but who takes care of the eredan's markenting, is doing a bad job, sorry again for the sincerity, but ask the players, they will say the same.

Dernière modification par Stormholt (07-08-2012 21:32:28)

Zurga · 07-08-2012 22:59:13

Put your point of view from the paying side.
Do you believe that anyone will pay if a not paying player can win like a paying one ?

It's easy to say that the game will be better if anyone playing from 2 day without paying anything can win the ELO.
Believe me, if this arrives, the players will leave the game by thousands.

I'm not a big fan of the marketing policy of Feerik. But I understand they have to live and gain some money to make this game.

Nurvus · 07-08-2012 23:22:43

Zurga a écrit :

Put your point of view from the paying side.
Do you believe that anyone will pay if a not paying player can win like a paying one ?
It's easy to say that the game will be better if anyone playing from 2 day without paying anything can win the ELO.
Believe me, if this arrives, the players will leave the game by thousands.
I'm not a big fan of the marketing policy of Feerik. But I understand they have to live and gain some money to make this game.

League of Legends is a free-to-play game that makes money and doesn't resort to a pay-to-win policy.

Feerik doesn't treat paying players very well.
You spend money, next week Feerik releases an event that requires spending more money. Why doesn't Feerik have the courtesy of introducing the stuff needed to complete the event in boosters 1 or 2 weeks before the event is released?

Why does Feerik constantly screw paying players by making all the money they spent in Boosters 3 months ago pointless due to the insane releases of today?

Caring for paying players, would be to care for their whole card collection, making sure all the interesting cards are kept in the loop, so that those players feel like everything they paid for so far was not in vain.

Eventually, I started thinking - if I buy a booster now, how long until the cards it MAY have become obsolete?

Feerik policy of constant power creep may make the players that spend the most spend even more, but it also scares alot of potential paying players away.
It's a short-term profit that will likely have negative long term consequences.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (07-08-2012 23:30:22)

Zurga · 08-08-2012 08:16:45

Did I say I don't like their marketing policy ?
Yes I did.
Did I mention that my answer is for the ones who believe that a free player should win in two days ?
Yes I did.

I believe your speech is out of place, Nurvus.

Nurvus · 08-08-2012 10:17:37

You misunderstood what I wrote, apparently.
I wasn't attacking you or anything.

I was answering to this:

Zurga a écrit :

But I understand they have to live and gain some money to make this game.

It was not out of place at all.

Essentially, I'm saying that even though Feerik needs to make money, they do not need to make a Pay-To-Win game for that.

There are loads of ways to make money in a Free-To-Play game without making it a Pay-To-Win AND make the customers feel good about it, and I gave the example of League of Legends, wich successfully accomplishes that.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (08-08-2012 10:20:44)

Zurga · 08-08-2012 10:24:10

When you quote me, quote me completely and do not forget the first part of my paragraph :

I'm not a big fan of the marketing policy of Feerik

Perhaps if you read this, you will understand that your speech is misplaced.
Your speech is true but out of place here.

Nurvus · 08-08-2012 15:05:24

Zurga a écrit :

I'm not a big fan of the marketing policy of Feerik. But I understand they have to live and gain some money to make this game.

What I understand from the quote above is that even though you're not a fan of their policy, you understand that Feerik does what it does out of necessity.

What I am saying, is that Feerik doesn't do it out of necessity, because it's not their only option; it's not the best option; it's not even the easiest option.

Feerik does it out of narrow-mindedness, because they have alot of better sollutions all around them and within their reach, in popular free-to-play games that grow without pay-to-win strategies.

So what I wrote earlier wasn't misplaced. Maybe I didn't use the right words, but I was actually commenting on what you said.

But I'll accept we disagree on that...

Dernière modification par Nurvus (08-08-2012 15:09:29)

UIA · 08-08-2012 18:07:03

Zurga a écrit :

Put your point of view from the paying side.
Do you believe that anyone will pay if a not paying player can win like a paying one ?
It's easy to say that the game will be better if anyone playing from 2 day without paying anything can win the ELO.
Believe me, if this arrives, the players will leave the game by thousands.
I'm not a big fan of the marketing policy of Feerik. But I understand they have to live and gain some money to make this game.

I don't think anyone's suggested that a free player should be able to win ELO in 2 days, 2 weeks or even 2 months, that's reaching a bit far o_O

Even if Feerik did something simple like remove the 3 week limit on selling cards in marketplace it would do a lot for maintaining longevity in this game. More cards would be available, ppl could take a break and come back and not feel like they're being bled dry just to remain a little bit competitive. For me thats one of the biggest turnoffs to the game. You spend real money and market privileges should be unlocked forever. This model works well on other ccgs don't see why they can't implement it here.

Nurvus · 08-08-2012 19:50:47

Or at least, if not available forever, available in a limited fashion, like put 1 card for sale per day outside the 3 week limit.

hitomo · 08-08-2012 20:44:20

hm ... you know, maybe they need all that much money every other month to pay all those artist for the card releases ...

its obvious they have a very high standart regarding the artorks of the cards and ther 'lore' itself ... maybe running a tight business model like this is the only way
to produce a TC.game that high in quality ?

think about it, almost every other TCg has a lot of cards where the artworks are
simply crap or like quick drafts. Not here.

I mean, it is clear that this game is not made by someone looking for just a nother opportunity to make some easy money on the internet ... loöks more like someone having a creative vision, willing to realize it at any cost or risk.

this is just a thought, but in general F2P gaming stands for drop in quality of gaming,
maybe in this case, the F2P model is used to ensure the constant quality of new
card releases ... ?

judging by the numbers on the log in page this game isnt growing ...

and I think there is a hardcore of players willing to stay competetive, essentialy feeding the game on a weekly base ...

and there is the casual crowd, playing in the level room, grinding adventure mode, always wondering what it realy takes to play and win in elo ^^

but just think of yourself as one of those hardcore players ...
dont you think it would be welcomt to you if the OP cards in the game are frequently changing? Making things interesting and never static. Giving you the variation and motiviation you seek if you are already spending 200 a week for boosters and stuff?

maybe there is a justification why they choose to run it like they do ... i dont know,
but maybe what looks unfair and discouraging from our perspective is the direct
opposite for poeple already owning every single interesting card and deck

well and in the end we all have to accept that this game was created by french people ... just dont interfere with the opinions and views of those highly talented individuals and nobody needs to get a dismissive smile from someone else ... (j/k)

best regards

Damncaster · 08-08-2012 20:55:52

Zurga a écrit :

Put your point of view from the paying side.
Do you believe that anyone will pay if a not paying player can win like a paying one ?
It's easy to say that the game will be better if anyone playing from 2 day without paying anything can win the ELO.
Believe me, if this arrives, the players will leave the game by thousands.
I'm not a big fan of the marketing policy of Feerik. But I understand they have to live and gain some money to make this game.

I´m one of those xDDD

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 27-07-2012 13:02:47

Arena of the border restriction/remake

#2 28-07-2012 00:03:20

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#3 28-07-2012 00:53:37

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#4 28-07-2012 02:27:53

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#5 28-07-2012 03:42:05

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#6 29-07-2012 18:21:13

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#7 29-07-2012 20:43:44

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#8 29-07-2012 20:50:40

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#9 01-08-2012 20:33:55

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#10 02-08-2012 01:27:17

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#11 07-08-2012 20:37:57

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#12 07-08-2012 20:49:11

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#13 07-08-2012 21:28:51

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#14 07-08-2012 22:59:13

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#15 07-08-2012 23:22:43

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#16 08-08-2012 08:16:45

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#17 08-08-2012 10:17:37

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#18 08-08-2012 10:24:10

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#19 08-08-2012 15:05:24

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#20 08-08-2012 18:07:03

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#21 08-08-2012 19:50:47

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#22 08-08-2012 20:44:20

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

#23 08-08-2012 20:55:52

Re : Arena of the border restriction/remake

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