Eredan's World

Lygatos · 06-08-2012 22:22:17

1st suggestion: Unstoppable cards

With all the cards out that hinder your ability to play (specifically general fray... I have nothing against Obesity and other cards like it, but general fray is just... annoying), I suggest another kind of card that is unstoppable if it has been played (even if the guild of the character is not the same guild as the card when it is the cards turn to be played <-- in order to counter dissidence) OR a card that is played before all other cards regardless of turn order.

Note: this should be available for all classes and guilds EXCEPT mages. Mages would be able to easily abuse this card ability... and they dont really need it. (they can already chain spells... isnt that just enough)

2nd suggestion: Played card limit

Something Ive noticed when fighting mages in particular is that, if lucky, they can play nearly every card in their deck on their first or second turn.

Example: Noz compendium deck: use pyth first and use attach crystal storm. discard an "attracts lightning" from your hand. Second turn, after whatever the opponent picks (doesnt matter), use compendiums secret first to bring back the attracts lightning and chain mastery with it.

Heres the order (and this actually happened to me...): compendiums secret --> Mastery --> Attracts Lightning --> Attracts Lightning --> Spark things off --> Attracts Lighning --> Attracts Lightning --> Spark things off

Thats 8 cards... 5 of which did (increasing) damage.

Heres the point: There should be a card play limit of 5 cards

Nurvus · 07-08-2012 01:40:49

1st Suggestion: I agree.

There should be some kind of "unstoppable" cards, that cannot be ignored no matter what.

However, those cards should either:
a) be weaker than average; or b) the unstoppable property would have a condition.

2nd Suggestion: I disagree.

The game should foster creativity, not burn it down.
What's more overpowered?
a) A deck that can one-shot most characters by playing the normal amount of cards (noz blast, zil marauder, the pack, eclipse, pirate powder, etc)?
b) A deck built around a single combo that depends on luck (pirate/compendium lightning)?

Dernière modification par Nurvus (07-08-2012 01:54:15)

UIA · 07-08-2012 16:54:34

Lygatos a écrit :

Heres the order (and this actually happened to me...): compendiums secret --> Mastery --> Attracts Lightning --> Attracts Lightning --> Spark things off --> Attracts Lighning --> Attracts Lightning --> Spark things off
Thats 8 cards... 5 of which did (increasing) damage.
Heres the point: There should be a card play limit of 5 cards

I hate that combo its so overused now in elo and generally destroys everything on the board. I hope compendium secret sees a nerf or becomes unique but I doubt it because noz never gets touched. As usual next nerf will prob be to to eclipse + ??

Nurvus a écrit :

The game should foster creativity, not burn it down.
What's more overpowered?
a) A deck that can one-shot most characters by playing the normal amount of cards (noz blast, zil marauder, the pack, eclipse, pirate powder, etc)?
b) A deck built around a single combo that depends on luck (pirate/compendium lightning)?

I fail to see the difference in luck here. Any deck can get bad draws but playing from your discard makes it a lot easier to get the cards you need by 3rd round. Compendium in particular becomes nearly immune to one-shot because of blanche's -3 dmg bonus so its not a hard combo to get your secret in hand by 3rd round and pretty much end the game unless opp has high spirit. I agree though I don't see the need for artificial card limits, just better balancing.

Stormholt · 07-08-2012 18:09:07

UIA a écrit :

I fail to see the difference in luck here. Any deck can get bad draws but playing from your discard makes it a lot easier to get the cards you need by 3rd round. Compendium in particular becomes nearly immune to one-shot because of blanche's -3 dmg bonus so its not a hard combo to get your secret in hand by 3rd round and pretty much end the game unless opp has high spirit. I agree though I don't see the need for artificial card limits, just better balancing.

Man, you don't have this decks right? Becuz a bad hand is the end of the game. If your compedium secrets goes to the end of the deck, you'r screwed, and even Crystal Storm, it can easily be taken to discart pile... For tunder deck, i got it, and its very rare to got a good hand, for example, if you got 1 Spark Things Off, you hand get struck, if you trash it, you loose a good card, if you use it, you dont got the full power, if you let it stay on your hand, its -1 good card...

I'm not talking that this cards are not OP, they are like hell, but i do think that they are not unstopable, a simple General Fray break all you strategy... Well there's some cards that i do think that should be nerfed:

[card]Kan-Del Lost Scroll[/card]
[card]Compedium Secret[/card]
[card]General Fray[/card]
[card]Atratckt Lighting[/card](Only bring Non AdE tunder) or [card]Spark Things Off[/card](Take off the +5 maximum bonus, and substitute by 3 or 2)

I use pirates, and i know that this decks are very OP, they need to be nerfed, its unfair...

Limestone · 07-08-2012 21:59:19

1st suggestion: suggested wording "This card effect's cannot be ignored or negated by any other card effect. Attack +3 till the end of the fight if your character is a guemelite, otherwise the next card played by the opponent is ignored"

2nd suggestion: simply disagree, more combo the better

Nurvus · 08-08-2012 00:14:38

I think "Unstoppable" effect should be officialized with a single word, like Dual Wield, Chain, etc.
Furthermore, I think "unstoppable" should always be either conditional or have a drawback (weaker card, etc).

Example.

Spark
Spell Lightning
Unstoppable.
Deals X damage to the opposing character, where X equals your Spirit +1.

Bullrush
Action
Warrior: Unstoppable.
Attack +1.
If you deal physical damage to the opposing character and your Defense is higher, this card is attached to the latter and he has Defense -1 until the end of his next fight.
Chain: Action.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (08-08-2012 00:15:10)

Lygatos · 08-08-2012 17:11:26

Second suggestion was more of a "heat of the moment" kind of thing (fought 3 people in a row that did it to me...). So, upon further though, I take it back.

First suggestion was an honest suggestion I was about to make before i went on a compendium mage losing streak.

Unstoppable would be a great addition. The only thing I would add to my suggestion is to make any "unstoppable" card have no guild requirement and make it weaker <-- which was suggested before by multiple people and I definitely agree. Dont make it "+1 attack" weaker, but some sort of drawback would be decent.

skadooosh · 08-08-2012 18:17:34

seriously, unstoppable cards... Oo

you guys are kidding right...?
Maybe we can imagine a card that says:

All your characters have "whatever cool effect you want".
Every time One of your card is either discarded by the opponent ore ignored, all your characters have either a drawback, or another cool effect "

But NOT unstoppable cards...

and then what? we make cards that can stop unsoppable cards...?
and then super unstoppable cards, which can only be countered by
cap'tain master mage ouréceptacle the imperial living shadow?

Dernière modification par skadooosh (08-08-2012 20:51:07)

UIA · 08-08-2012 18:47:46

skadooosh a écrit :

seriously, unstoppable cards... Oo
you guys are kidding right...?
Maybe we can imagine a card that says:
All your characters have "whatever cool effect you want".
Every time One of your card is either discarded by the opponent ore ignored, all your characters ,"depending on how cool was the actual first effect: either a drawback, or another cool effect "
But NOT unstoppable cards...
and then what? we make cards that can stop unsoppable cards...?
and then super unstoppable cards, which can only be countered by
cap'tain master mage ouréceptacle the imperial living shadow?

yep pretty much, soon we'll have to have new counters for [card]unstoppable[/card], like [card]ultima-counter >:X[/card], and cards to beat that like [card]insuppressible[/card], and of course then we'll need a new counter [card]FUUUUUUU!!!![/card], which of course cannot stop the [card]No, seriously don't even think about it[/card], and so on and so forth further down the rabbit hole we go

Nurvus · 08-08-2012 19:42:27

Regarding Stormholt's suggestion, I think changing [card]Attracts Lightning[/card] to only pull non-AoE lightning spells is enough to get Compendium Caste back in line.

No need to nerf Compendium Secret if the above is done.

[card]Lost Scroll of Kan-Del[/card] is a tough subject because it is only OP in the hands of the Legendary Admiral, because she is the only character among Mages and Fire Guemelites that can chain Pirate Items.
---

Regarding Ignore cards, I think there should be less cards like [card]Luminosity[/card], and more like [card]Banish[/card], [card]Obesity[/card] or [card]General Fray[/card] (without one of the secondary effects).

What I mean by this is cards that have a "useful effect" + "ignore". The "useful effect" should be inferior to cards without the "ignore", ofcourse.

Similarly, Unstoppable cards should be weaker and/or impose restrictions/conditions.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (08-08-2012 19:48:31)

Cyanide · 09-08-2012 23:41:21

IDEA!!!!!!!

<NAME><CLASS><GUILD><STATS> <=== All negotiable
Whenever a card you play is ignored, a copy of that card is created and played.

---------
That way, the card is still cancelled, it still messes up the order of the cards played (which can still cancel the effects of the card pending on its effects), but the cards still get to be played. Maybe a legendary character effect? And this is a global effect, not just applied to the character, but to the player.

Another idea would be:
Whenever a card that is played becomes ignored, it gets placed in your deck at the end of the fight.

Less legendary version that has an up side and a down side. You get your countered cards back AND your opponents. It could flood your deck with useless cards or fill it with game winners of your opponents while you cancel their cards.

Dandeman · 16-08-2012 08:10:28

The idea of unstoppable cards is not something I would support. I'm fully on with it though to make Compendium secret a unique (as was done with living nature which is much weaker).
Most of all to solve this problem Feerik needs to get rid of the 3rd card bug. Until today it's only obesity and dissidence that work on a third card played. Even though Magic shield (which halves your attack) should ignore all spells played by the opponent and could kill above mentioned CS-attr lightning combo, it doesn't work if it's not the 1st card played on the turn. The same goes for protection of the pantheon and Dark stone heart/Nehantic stone, if illumination, attract's lightning, hungry void, Compendium secret, Council's banner are used to pull a spell as 3rd card or higher on the turn, these spell blockers do not work, and that's the real bugger. Magic shield has been around since Act 1, and one would expect that for sacrificing half attack value all spells would be blocked, and not that illumination still pulls and activates attracts lightning or crystal storm. Sacrificing half your attack only to see a council's banner which then allows ***bip*** opponent to play CS or attracts lightning is just wrong.

skadooosh · 16-08-2012 09:25:50

counter cards don't have any actions on cards that are brought back by other cards

If the opponent plays hungry void to pick up any action
and you play obesity after his hungry void. You won't cancel the card he brings from the graveyard...

I aggre it's not really fair when fighting compendium for example. But this is how it works....

Nurvus · 16-08-2012 10:55:14

Stop wishing fo Feerik to ruin cards.
Just because you don't like Pirate Mages or Compendium, stop wishing for Feerik to break them.

Some people seem to fail to understand that the less competitive decks there are, the more people will play the same decks, wich is BORING.

I'm pretty sure some of the shitty changes that Feerik made to cards were the result of massive crying on the French forums.
Don't cry so much about cards and focus on ways to make them balanced AND fun, not balanced and worthless.

Living Nature should never have been made Unique.

Compendium Secret is not overpowered.
Attracts Lightning is, because it can play AoE spells.

All Feerik has to do to fix Compendium AND Pirate Mages at the same time, is to make Attracts Lightning UNABLE to play AoE spells.
---

As for unstoppable cards, yes, it would be an interesting concept if implemented properly.

There could be a character with a Order Bonus that makes the first card you play Unstoppable.
There could be a simple card like:

Action - Warrior - Marauder
Attack +2. The next time you play a card, it becomes Unstoppable and this card is discarded.
Duration: 2 fights.

This is not overpowered.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (16-08-2012 11:05:43)

skadooosh · 16-08-2012 11:05:26

Nurvus a écrit :

Just make Attracts Lightning UNABLE to play AoE spells.

NO. If you do that, you kill pirate thunderblast decks...!

My suggestion is:
[card]Attracts Lightning [/card]:

a non AOE lightning spell from your deck is played
pirate: any lightning spell from your deck can be played.
If another copy of "attracts lightning" is active, a randomly selected opposing character suffers between 3 and 7 magic damage points.
Duration: 2 turns

Dernière modification par skadooosh (16-08-2012 11:05:40)

Nurvus · 16-08-2012 13:09:55

Great idea!

Dandeman · 18-08-2012 15:37:29

Came back here today, tired, pissed, irritated. Compendium Secret is OP!!! I feel the least that should be changed is affiliating it with the Noz guild. Changing Attracts lightning won't be effective as there are also combos with multiple shadow masters or multiple Lightning bolts. What does one do against Turn 2: Comp Sec-Break 2nd chain-Shadow Master-LB3..........Turn 3: Comp Sec-Mastery-LB3 ??? No deck can survive that. Unique means only 1 per deck. AoE spells are not chainable because they are very powerful (Hungry void came and changed that) but now they've become CHAINABLE and DUPLICATABLE in one turn, and Compendium has access to ALL AoE spells to throw around as they please....and it can't be blocked even with Dissidence from a previous turn!!! This card is a mistake, even high spirit Trackers or Tsoutai are helpless against Multiple Shadow Master and Crystal storm combos causing 10-11 DIRECT DAMAGES from turn 2 to 3 on all opposing characters, and not being able to one-shot Compendium in turn 1 or 2 (Unless Admiral Killicrew) makes this card very dangerous. It needs to be changed.

Nurvus · 18-08-2012 15:44:11

Again, I'll repeat, the problem is Attracts Lightning being able to pull AoE cards, at least from non-Pirate through Compendium.

Make Attracts Lightning only able to play AoE if you are Pirate and problem solved.

Dandeman · 18-08-2012 16:08:23

Nurvus a écrit :

Again, I'll repeat, the problem is Attracts Lightning being able to pull AoE cards, at least from non-Pirate through Compendium.
Make Attracts Lightning only able to play AoE if you are Pirate and problem solved.

Changing Attracts Lightning will not solve the problem. Picture a Compendium deck:
3x Compendium Secret
3x Shadow Master
3x Crystal Storm
3x Illumination
3x Art of Magic
Draconian Sceptre
Syllphide
Break the Second Chain
Lightning Bolts 3
Other side of the coin

These are 20 cheap cards, excluding the expensive Mastery. One-shotting Pythia or Blanche before turn 3 is impossible. Because Syllphide and The sceptre are pre-drawn there's 5 cards in hand, 13 in deck.
Turn 1 - Crystal storm (6 possibilities)
Turn 2 - Compendium Secret - Compendium secret/break 2nd chain - any 2 AoE spells from discard pile which contains 4 cards.
Turn 3 - all opponents die

Even without foreign AoE, the 3 Compendium ladies all have Spirit=3 from star of the game, making LB3 a 9 Magic damage AoE spell when chained with Other side of the coin.....(Anreyna, turn 3, 11 magic damage AoE) and dissidence will not stop it!!
A shadowmaster or 2 in turn 2, everybody dies.

High spirit values can't protect you against crystal storm or shadow master.
Crystal storm on Pythia does 3 direct damages. Pulling shadowmaster ans another crystal storm, or 2 shadow masters from discard pile with Compendium secret means 10-11(with syllphide) direct damages on all opposing chars in turn 2, that's too much.

Either way, with Attracts Lightning, or Shadow master, the fact that this combo is next to unstoppable is due to Compendium Secret, which is a cheap magic hungry void, and you can have 3 in a deck.....

Nurvus · 18-08-2012 17:01:00

Hmm.

Actually add +1 to the damage calculations of LB3, since Compendium Secret also gives +1 spirit = 12 LB3 damage at turn 3 with anryena.

Anyway, just implement my idea of splitting cards into AoE, greater and greater AoE, and make [card]Compendium Secret[/card] and [card]Living Nature[/card] Greater Spells = cannot be chained.

Another idea is changing it into a Draconic Spell.
This makes the Illumination + Crystal Storm less reliable because you can accidentally pull Compendium Secret instead.

I don't like the idea of it becoming Unique, though.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (18-08-2012 17:02:27)

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 06-08-2012 22:22:17

Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#2 07-08-2012 01:40:49

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#3 07-08-2012 16:54:34

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#4 07-08-2012 18:09:07

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#5 07-08-2012 21:59:19

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#6 08-08-2012 00:14:38

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#7 08-08-2012 17:11:26

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#8 08-08-2012 18:17:34

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#9 08-08-2012 18:47:46

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#10 08-08-2012 19:42:27

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#11 09-08-2012 23:41:21

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#12 16-08-2012 08:10:28

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#13 16-08-2012 09:25:50

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#14 16-08-2012 10:55:14

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#15 16-08-2012 11:05:26

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#16 16-08-2012 13:09:55

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#17 18-08-2012 15:37:29

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#18 18-08-2012 15:44:11

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#19 18-08-2012 16:08:23

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

#20 18-08-2012 17:01:00

Re : Unstoppable cards + played card limit

Pied de page des forums