Wow. Seems the complete opposite to me ;p. Bleach is just all about cliché, from the beginning to the end. No surprise, just "big guy comes, Ichigo fights, Ichigo loses, power up from out of space, Ichigo wins". There are absolutely no variation, and the power up is always so dumb that I wonder if Kubo isn't a close friend of Prometheus' script writer.

Favorite ongoing Mangas/Manwha (no particular order) :
The Breaker
One Piece
Dark Air

And the last anime I've watched was Guren Lagan, so I don't follow anything anymore (but Darker than Black > *)

Zurga · 06-06-2012 13:36:24

Did you know this is not a good place for flood ?
Even the Community Manager participate to this....

Nurvus · 06-06-2012 13:58:30

Well the bug was already explained, and I kinda derailed, sorry.

PS: I'll check dark air. If you think about it, one piece isn't that different from naruto and bleach as far as "power ups" come. It ends up being a matter of personal taste.

Sapphon · 06-06-2012 14:08:45

It's not flood, it's animation ! (Well, ok, we'd better finish this conversation on MP or IRC - or I can just move the discussion. Woohoo ! I'm almighty !).

I'll just say that One Piece's power up are well prepared, comparing to Bleach. In Bleach it's more like "what ? Golgoth 13 dispatched me in one swing ? Np, I can train in my thoughts while I'm out, and when I'm back I'll kick the s... out of him."

Nurvus · 06-06-2012 21:55:51

How much did you actually watch from Bleach?

Pretty much everything that seems cliché about Bleach ends up being properly explained, as if Kubo actually organized the story pretty well, rather than seemingly patching it up like Naruto does.

Ichigo actually evolves, and so do the other characters.

In Naruto, for example, 90% of the characters are just fodder cannon.

- Naruto gets beaten in training by character 247
- Bad guy shows up
- Bad guy beats the crap out of character 247
- We now have an idea of the gap in power between Naruto and Bad guy
- Naruto trains/discovers something about himself
- Naruto beats bad guy

and now the part that really ticks me off...

- Somehow Naruto goes back to being a stupid brat and makes the same mistakes as if he had learned nothing...

At least Ichigo becomes visibly better - more determined, harder to be caught unprepared, etc.

Unlike most main characters that tend to be goofy and silly with occasional spasms of sanity, Ichigo grows into someone serious pretty early.

I also like One Piece, but the story is a bit chaotic and has a "random" feel to it, sometimes.

Plus, alot of characters have super, mega cheesy abilities, and there doesn't seem to be a notion of stamina.
But oh, well.
---

I'd like to see a fighting anime being written by someone who knows what fighting is.

In most manga/anime, either the ability you use is enough to "one shot" the opponent, or the opponent can go on forever...

Like Naruto could hit the opponent with 100 rasengans, the opponent wouldn't fall.
But 1 <insert powered up version> rasengan would be enough.

Bah...

Well, The Breaker does have a pretty decent notion of stamina

Dernière modification par Nurvus (06-06-2012 22:03:05)

Cossette · 07-06-2012 02:45:54

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQjBRenWrU0rk4trzPiCDMo-nstUeLb2UgMV9Q9hTNZtXgWvepNaSMUDfkFQ

tell it to the grand daddy of most cliche and cheesy plots.
they just copied it from these guys.

Dernière modification par Cossette (07-06-2012 02:49:28)

Santuros · 07-06-2012 02:57:23

hey you should watch Psyren, is short and pretty good!

Nurvus · 07-06-2012 03:06:46

Santuros a écrit :

hey you should watch Psyren, is short and pretty good!

Thanks for reminding me.
Loved it

Sapphon · 07-06-2012 14:35:18

I read Bleach each week, so I don't have any "missed" stuff ;p And I really have 2 problems with the manga : dumb power ups from out of space (sorry, DBZ's Time Room is really a lazy way to power up a character) and pointless fights (I explain this later).
Maybe Kubo is explaining his power up, but they are lazy explaination (again, Time Room, yada yada). There is no "real" training (like in Naruto, where he has to spends weak to gain the power up Ichigo gains in a few seconds), just "you are too weak to venture further. Here, take this power up". That makes dumb fights, like the one vs Kenpachi where he goes from "I can't cut his skin" to "I two-shot him" in just 2 chapters.
As for the side kicks, they are plainly useless and pointless. I don't remember any good fight from them. And the problem is that we have to deal with their fights. The real interesting ones would have been the fights between Ol'yama, Jushiro and Shunsui, or Kenpachi / Byakuya vs Arrancar 0. Instead we get to see Chad's fights. Great. Fun. Or not.
And I don't talk about stupid plot twists. Like the fact that Ichigo can stop a Zanpakto "that has the power of a hundred ones" with one hand. At the end of the second season... Or like the fact that he has to go and save Athena every 2 seasons.

I don't say that Naruto is the best manga ever. I don't say it's a good one. But it has much more sense in my opinion. First of all, we know the deal at the start : Naruto has the greatest demon ever inside him, and we know he'll have to learn how to control him before getting "at the top". We also know he has some kind of relationship with the 4th hokage who's rumored to be the strongest of all.
Unlike bleach who starts like "here's a random character, he gets power. By the way, we didn't tell you he had some kind of strong reiatsu. Here's the power up. By the way, we forgot to tell you that he has another special feature, here's the power up that goes with it. By the way, we forgot to tell you another thing. Here's the power up that goes with that other thing."
There are training session, too. You see Naruto progressing. I mean : you really see him. Until Shippuuden, which is almost as dumb as Bleach. But until then, when he gains power, you know he spent weeks training to get it. Weeks. Not seconds. And, well, there are side kicks. When Chad is busy being useles, at least Rock Lee offers some show. When Ishida loses his sight... I mean, his powers, Neji demonstrates that he's not only an arrogant bastard.

So I'm totally with Cossette on this one : Naruto and Bleach totally took it from DBZ when you talk about cheesy and stupid plots. But while Kubo decided that he could go even further in the dumb and silly power up course, Kishimoto decided to start with a strong base, and screwed up later (even if it wasn't a total screw up. Immortal arc is wonderful, even if it ended like a bleach arc )

And yeah, Psyren is quite good. A shame it was canceled. That made the end too fast.

Xervos · 08-06-2012 12:54:46

Yah... One of my fav manga was Psyren. Was surprised it got to end that fast. I was hoping for it to make a longer run.

How about One Piece? Katekyo Hitman Reborn?

Nurvus · 08-06-2012 14:44:08

From the beginning, Ichigo did train every now and then.

Most of his training was during battles themselves, and he did alot of that.
Even Aizen at some point indicates it - that since he entered the soul society he had "do or die" fights after fights with the intent of maturing him so Aizen could consume him ripe.

About 99% of his training, is simply developing his belief, determination and realization of the power he already has but did not know fully of.

The characters have a story, a purpose and a personality.
I find alot of secondary characters interesting, though some of them didn't get proper fights yet.

---

Naruto goes like this:
- trains with some master for a while and shows little to no improvement
- decides to train alone overnight and suddenly advances beyond his master's expectations
- goes on for several episodes being an idiot as if he hadn't trained (skip this if he jumps directly from the training into battle)
- during battle he seems to have no success during 90% of battle despite all his training
- has a stroke of genius during battle totally deceiving the opponent regardless of their experience
- after the fight goes back to being a retard for several episodes
- repeat

Dernière modification par Nurvus (08-06-2012 14:47:13)

Calandra · 08-06-2012 15:12:16

i m not a fan of long breath animes... like Dragon ball... it was nice only until he fought the devil guy...

one piece... erm... wtf will he ever reach the last island?

naruto... its getting way too long already

i like animes which are short and to the point... cruel humor and a weird story... some stuff like afro samurai

Xervos · 08-06-2012 16:40:53

Best short anime for me would Golden Boy. EPIC!!!

Cossette · 08-06-2012 17:42:48

here is my shortlist of anime i like....

Le Portrait de Petit Cossette, Now and Then, Here and There, Saikano, Clannad, Please Save My Earth and Air.

dunno i just like unhappy endings make you think a lot. why should it end like that

I wanna add King of Thorns but its a Movie

Dernière modification par Cossette (08-06-2012 18:01:21)

Stormholt · 08-06-2012 17:58:44

I dont like anime too much too Well i only watch the animes that i saw on my childhood... Were they:

Yu-Gi-OH
Beyblade
Avatar, the last airbender
Medabots

And these kids things

soulst3al3r · 08-06-2012 18:42:56

Stormholt a écrit :

I dont like anime too much too Well i only watch the animes that i saw on my childhood... Were they:
Yu-Gi-OH
Beyblade
Avatar, the last airbender
Medabots
And these kids things

lol Yu-gi-oh ftw

Stormholt · 08-06-2012 18:57:42

I forgeted pokemon...

Nurvus · 08-06-2012 21:29:16

Calandra a écrit :

i m not a fan of long breath animes... like Dragon ball... it was nice only until he fought the devil guy...
one piece... erm... wtf will he ever reach the last island?
naruto... its getting way too long already
i like animes which are short and to the point... cruel humor and a weird story... some stuff like afro samurai

Try "My Balls"

Stormholt · 08-06-2012 21:55:04

Nurvus a écrit :

Calandra a écrit :
i m not a fan of long breath animes... like Dragon ball... it was nice only until he fought the devil guy...
one piece... erm... wtf will he ever reach the last island?
naruto... its getting way too long already
i like animes which are short and to the point... cruel humor and a weird story... some stuff like afro samurai
Try "My Balls"

Wow I thought that you were kiddin' but this anime is for real:

http://www.sakuraanimes.com/mangas/6362-my-balls-c

Santuros · 08-06-2012 21:56:51

Nurvus a écrit :

Calandra a écrit :
i m not a fan of long breath animes... like Dragon ball... it was nice only until he fought the devil guy...
one piece... erm... wtf will he ever reach the last island?
naruto... its getting way too long already
i like animes which are short and to the point... cruel humor and a weird story... some stuff like afro samurai
Try "My Balls"

Just to clarify, he is being serious XD

I dont watch anime, i only read manga... whenever i finish a manga i then see the anime, but sometimes i get dissapointed when they dont keeep the line of the manga.

Right now im reading Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, Ao no Exorcist, Fairy tail, Gantz, Berserk, Pandora Hearts, D.Gray man, Soul eater
I ended 666 Satan, Full Metal Alchemist, Death Note, Psyren and dont remember more...

Cossette · 09-06-2012 01:53:40

Speaking of Gantz i like reading it up to episode 99 i think, then the story became a mess . like they fired their writer and patch up anything to make the deadline. from M.I.B catch the bad guys theme. then suddenly what the hell happens?

Dernière modification par Cossette (09-06-2012 02:00:18)

Nurvus · 09-06-2012 01:55:37

Try Freezing, Aflame Inferno, both manhwa (korean manga, like The Breaker) from the same author.

Claymore is also awesome.

I checked a manga that ended somewhat abruptly, wich was... Veritas, I think.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (09-06-2012 01:56:05)

Cossette · 09-06-2012 02:04:20

i like Claymore even though its only once a month. they already killed the organization maybe the story will go back to Claire again i hope... but its nice to have a little side story. wish they remake the animated series.

Dernière modification par Cossette (09-06-2012 02:06:52)

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#1 06-06-2012 13:13:08

Flood

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Re : Flood

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