Eredan's World

H3R01C · 27-12-2011 16:31:39

As we begin to enter a new year, the marketplace which is essential to playing is monopolized and card prices are skyhigh. More and more cards are gone or too expensive for most causual players.

Reasons?

-Its pretty easy to monopolize a market with a low supply of cards.
-Most new players are buying newcomers pack as more advertising, new cards are priced with a high min due to new market system and better odds. Prices fall but they take a couple days

-every week releases seem to have a negative effect on marketplace, certain cards/decks are made much useful and cards are then increased in price permantly and become scarcer. (Nehanist release = few demonic cloud/lvl 3 ripper, just an example there are plenty more)

-buying packs with crystals aren't really worth it, the odds of getting something useful are very low, a new player would be really hardpressed to make a usuable deck, older players can just buy froms marketplace since they know it

-10% tax favors buyers, sellers are the one spending real $$, why they being punished? Get better rewards, perhaps past event item as a promotion rather than exp cards...

-income tax on everyone rather than a sales tax. 5-10% a month on your duplicates or more than 3 of the same cards. That way people with excessive cards are monopolizing the market are discouraged

Am I being paranoid or will things get better? Personally I've never seen prices go up this high since playing for 4 months...

Hilmario · 27-12-2011 23:31:58

Supply and demand.
If people buy cards at a higher price, then the price is justified. If you don`t like the present prices, don`t buy cards and eventually the prices will drop.

And about your 10%-point. If the 10% tax is removed the prices would be even higher because of more speculation in the market.

By the way:

Am I being paranoid or will things get better?

Aren`t those two the same? Lol.

PatrikÅkervinda · 28-12-2011 00:09:37

Hilmario a écrit :

Supply and demand.
If people buy cards at a higher price, then the price is justified. If you don`t like the present prices, don`t buy cards and eventually the prices will drop.

That applies to a free market. The problem is that the supply is far lower than the demand at the moment. Too few people are buying the older packs which makes the many cards scarce. Demonic Cloud is a great example.

Also the min/max prices make sure that the "supply and demand" premise is absolutely not working here. Some common/uncommon cards can never be priced according to their real value, the max price makes sure of that. That means you have a lot of players NOT selling their common/uncommon cards even though they won't ever use them.

Plus Eredan has a pretty unpredictable market because of the weekly updates.

Edit: Adding the link to a related thread: http://forum.eredan.com/viewtopic.php?p … 41#p457441

Dernière modification par PatrikÅkervinda (28-12-2011 00:11:20)

Hilmario · 28-12-2011 00:31:24

Well if more people bought the older packs instead, the prices for the new cards would be higher. I wouldn`t say no to guild-based packs though.

But i agree with the max-min point. I`m not very happy with the market place either

Dernière modification par Hilmario (28-12-2011 00:31:44)

Anihilate · 28-12-2011 01:45:39

Hilmario a écrit :

Well if more people bought the older packs instead, the prices for the new cards would be higher. I wouldn`t say no to guild-based packs though.
But i agree with the max-min point. I`m not very happy with the market place either

We had guild packs before we had act packs, Guild packs sucked.

As for the points aforementioned.

-No such thing as a free market good sirs

-It's a player run market, there are highs and there are lows. All of which are player generated.

-The 10% tax is lenient, too lenient. People buy more than they sell, because one lucky sale can net alot of crystals. Just as well, it was proposed that a 30% tax be implemented to remove crystals from millionaires in this game who constantly manipulate prices. Everyone cried their virtual eyes out until the tax was reduced, and the corruption continued.

-The cards have no ACTUAL WORTH, all prices, above the immediate sale price are PLAYER generated, therefore staff regulation will only lead to the previously mentioned "QQ Can't abuse the market QQ"

-Any further modification to the marketplace will lead to player dissatisfaction on a much larger scale, as staff and base modifications target the underlying cause, and functionality of the markets corruption. Those who have millions will QQ, those who can't gain a large profit off of the cards they purchased will QQ, and free players will QQ. Trust me, I've been around since The Monster was the weekly trophy <3

-In irl itcg's, buying individual cards is at the owner's discretion, the precedent price established by the players. Game companies, to my knowledge, have never sold individual cards, only secondary retailers. The players are those secondary retailer's yet every whiner on these forums blames Feerik and their staff.

-Given, any of you had found out how to effectively manipulate and prosper from the marketplace, I seriously doubt you'd do the honorable thing and spread the wealth, so you speak with intent to do the same as those you complain about.

-edit: Before the max/min setting, it was possible to buy out cards in low stock, and put them up for an exponential price. Given older cards are now LOW in stock, they can easily reach insane prices due to a single player. So, hush.

In conclusion, any further modification to the market will cause player dissatisfaction in one form or another. Quit whining, adjust, or actually BUY something from the COMPANY THAT MAINTAINS THE GAME YOU WISH TO PLAY.

Edit2:
Adventure mode, kthx

Dernière modification par Anihilate (28-12-2011 02:05:26)

PatrikÅkervinda · 28-12-2011 04:25:03

I think you are wrong Anihilate. This isen't a "quit whining" topic. The market is broken and it's bad for the company as well as the game and not to mention: it's bad for us paying players.

The few millionaires are able to manipulate prices because not enough people buy boosters.

The cards do have an actual worth although it's a highly fluctuating one here in Eredan. Its based on rarity, playability and what the next update might do to it. The staff directly control the prices through these mechanics.

My chance of pulling a Demonic Cloud in a booster is 7.53%. Trying to get three Demonic Clouds is a costly endevour. And that's a common card. 153 euros to get 3 Demonic Clouds (please correct me if I'm wrong).

To change this trend something must be done.

A few options are:

- Lower the price of boosters.
- Remove the max/min prices in the market. (Hooray for a free market!)
- Allow common cards to be obtained more easily through other means (such as Adventure mode)
- Making a "common card only" booster with a resonable price tag.

I don't mind that the really rare and special cards are damn hard to obtain. I just don't think that the good common and uncommon cards should be almost impossible to get a playset of.

You do have one point: there should be no modifications made to the market at first. The root of the problem is the low influx of cards. better deal with that issue first.

And by the way, Anihilate: don't hush people. It's rude, and it never gets the job done .

Nurvus · 28-12-2011 04:53:37

If Feerik lowers the price of boosters, he gets less money per Booster.
However:
- Those who spent X€ on Boosters per month, will still spend the same, and get more boosters, so Feerik actually loses nothing.
- Alot of people that think Boosters are too expensive to spend € on this game, will start spending, so actually Feerik wins alot.
- Some people only spend when boosters have a discount, these would probably spend regularly if the Boosters cost 300 instead of 400.

NOTE: Feerik must realize some people do not spend € even when there is a discount, based on morals. By this I mean they reject the idea of spending on a game that has prices they disagree with. These might change their minds if the prices dropped.

Likewise, alot of people that spend 10€ a month with 400 crystals per Booster, might spend 20€ a month if Boosters were 300 Crystals each.

There are alot of potential paying players that aren't found through statistics.
You can't discern these players based on the sales variation from discounts.

Something as small as a 25% discount would likely double or triple the income.
Something as big as 50% discount would probably increase the income tenfold.

However, out of respect for those that already spent on the game at the normal prices, some sort of compensation would be necessary.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (28-12-2011 05:00:28)

MrLordi92 · 28-12-2011 05:28:57

Nurvus a écrit :

Something as small as a 25% discount would likely double or triple the income.
Something as big as 50% discount would probably increase the income tenfold.

I strongly agree with this. I've sold and traded Magic cards since I was in middle school, and have helped out at a few card shops. I can tell you from experience that selling a card at even just a buck or two less than normal brings in HUGE business. You make the same amount of money if you sell it at half price and get twice the business. (That's just a general example.)

Plus, I'd be more inclined to buy two booster packs (of Magic) at 3$ than one at 4$. If Feerik lowered the price of a booster, I might actually spend money on this game.

Anihilate · 28-12-2011 05:35:00

Nurvus a écrit :

If Feerik lowers the price of boosters, he gets less money per Booster.
However:
- Those who spent X€ on Boosters per month, will still spend the same, and get more boosters, so Feerik actually loses nothing.
- Alot of people that think Boosters are too expensive to spend € on this game, will start spending, so actually Feerik wins alot.
- Some people only spend when boosters have a discount, these would probably spend regularly if the Boosters cost 300 instead of 400.

NOTE: Feerik must realize some people do not spend € even when there is a discount, based on morals. By this I mean they reject the idea of spending on a game that has prices they disagree with. These might change their minds if the prices dropped.
Likewise, alot of people that spend 10€ a month with 400 crystals per Booster, might spend 20€ a month if Boosters were 300 Crystals each.
There are alot of potential paying players that aren't found through statistics.
You can't discern these players based on the sales variation from discounts.
Something as small as a 25% discount would likely double or triple the income.
Something as big as 50% discount would probably increase the income tenfold.
However, out of respect for those that already spent on the game at the normal prices, some sort of compensation would be necessary.

We've visited this topic several times over the passed year and a half. The problem being, what is fair compensation to players like myself, who have bought around 10 pages of 4 digit purchases in feez? A refund for every pack bought? Even if that pack doesn't exist anymore?

There is no way to compensate for the old prices accurately.. It's like saying "You sold your RoD way back when it was 26k, so we're going to give you the 75k difference"
Unless something like that can be universally settled, no matter how good of an idea, one group or another within the player base is going to be pissed.

Regressing:Patrik: The price and worth of a card is based on the players, therefore is not fixed and feerik has no say in it other than disallowing players to single handedly hike or drop prices. The only way the staff changes how the players value cards is through new releases. There is percentage, and a non cumulative ratio when pulling cards, every card of a rarity (excluding legendaries v everything) has the same chance to be pulled as another.
Unless you believe that feerik programmed cards to drop less >.>

More cards on the market will lead to price stability issues within existent cards.

How many TCGs have you played that you pull every card you want from buying a single booster box of the set your card comes in? It's a virtual card game, but the principle is the same, you can buy alot of product, but you aren't guaranteed a certain card. And just as cards will be pulled by players, the prices are at the discretion of players.

As far as I see it, irl tcgs do the same thing, but since it's a virtual game that most are fortunate enough to even play without investing a nickel, everyone wants a handout.

With the amount of feez I've spent, I'd easily be able to buy another 30-40 boosters, just by getting reimbursed for a 100feez reduction.

Edit: This was a QQ and complaint thread about the marketplace, and now we have a discussion about the store.
I'm known for being quite the jerk when it comes to vast amounts of complaints about something that people have been unsatisfied with since the start of the game.

Edit 2:
I'm really liking adventure mode <3
It gives ftp players 2-3 cards at random for completing a boss fight, even the shitty nehantists.
Free players had no source of cards before now, other than the weekly cards, now I see shit like this and lol. You can get an arseton of cards for free if you do work. Beating any boss 4 times (60 energy) gives you 8-12 free cards, which is 2-3 120 feez boosters.

Dernière modification par Anihilate (28-12-2011 05:52:36)

H3R01C · 28-12-2011 06:19:15

I'm not asking for compensation at all. The issue with the marketplace is lack of supply or packs bought or sold. Particularily older packs.

As for tax, the buyer should be taxed, not the seller. After all if someone has to pay the tax, its the person contributing less. Seller will pass on cost if they are taxed. If they aren't well they will likely sell more, no?

As for adventure mode, not everyone can farm the boss, especially new players due to lack of possible cards on market/packs. Have you seen how many perversions/demon may rise/demon may rise are on the marketplace lately?? Few and the few that are are priced almost at max due to high demand, low supply.

Exp cards from packs are obsolete due to adventure mode dropping 100 xp/200 xp.

I'm not asking for better drop rates in boosters or even adventure mode. It wouldn't solve anything. After all the cards are inexchangable in adventure and most people would keep their cards in the current market. All I'm saying is an option shoud be allowed for more players to sell cards. Cheaper boosters would help a little. But in the end, it only e benefits a portion of the playerbase. The people who spend.

In eredan's defense, online card games allow you to play against anyone you want at anytime, globally, charging higher prices is ok if it gives a tangible benefit.

Ideas
1. Everyone should be able to sell 1-4 cards a day, reset at the end of each day for free players. Formula = lvl divided by 5 or 10, rounded up.

2. everyone can sell common cards until level 16 where they can then sell uncommon cards. Paying players could sell any type of card when they buy a booster.

I would rather people try to contribute what could or can work. Different ideas. Lets avoid compensation for the duration of this thread since its such a touchy subject and is difficult to implement because how long/much would they have to compensate each individual player? It would take a long time, time developers should be spending on something useful.

P.s I have bought feez, and I'm sure most of people who are on forums a lot have. Eredan itcg is a great game, just the marketplace is the only problem that prevents most people from enjoying it more.

Dernière modification par H3R01C (28-12-2011 09:51:41)

PatrikÅkervinda · 28-12-2011 15:25:14

Anihilate a écrit :

Nurvus a écrit :
If Feerik lowers the price of boosters, he gets less money per Booster.
However:
- Those who spent X€ on Boosters per month, will still spend the same, and get more boosters, so Feerik actually loses nothing.
- Alot of people that think Boosters are too expensive to spend € on this game, will start spending, so actually Feerik wins alot.
- Some people only spend when boosters have a discount, these would probably spend regularly if the Boosters cost 300 instead of 400.

NOTE: Feerik must realize some people do not spend € even when there is a discount, based on morals. By this I mean they reject the idea of spending on a game that has prices they disagree with. These might change their minds if the prices dropped.
Likewise, alot of people that spend 10€ a month with 400 crystals per Booster, might spend 20€ a month if Boosters were 300 Crystals each.
There are alot of potential paying players that aren't found through statistics.
You can't discern these players based on the sales variation from discounts.
Something as small as a 25% discount would likely double or triple the income.
Something as big as 50% discount would probably increase the income tenfold.
However, out of respect for those that already spent on the game at the normal prices, some sort of compensation would be necessary.
We've visited this topic several times over the passed year and a half. The problem being, what is fair compensation to players like myself, who have bought around 10 pages of 4 digit purchases in feez? A refund for every pack bought? Even if that pack doesn't exist anymore?
There is no way to compensate for the old prices accurately.. It's like saying "You sold your RoD way back when it was 26k, so we're going to give you the 75k difference"
Unless something like that can be universally settled, no matter how good of an idea, one group or another within the player base is going to be pissed.
Regressing:Patrik: The price and worth of a card is based on the players, therefore is not fixed and feerik has no say in it other than disallowing players to single handedly hike or drop prices. The only way the staff changes how the players value cards is through new releases. There is percentage, and a non cumulative ratio when pulling cards, every card of a rarity (excluding legendaries v everything) has the same chance to be pulled as another.
Unless you believe that feerik programmed cards to drop less >.>
More cards on the market will lead to price stability issues within existent cards.
How many TCGs have you played that you pull every card you want from buying a single booster box of the set your card comes in? It's a virtual card game, but the principle is the same, you can buy alot of product, but you aren't guaranteed a certain card. And just as cards will be pulled by players, the prices are at the discretion of players.
As far as I see it, irl tcgs do the same thing, but since it's a virtual game that most are fortunate enough to even play without investing a nickel, everyone wants a handout.
With the amount of feez I've spent, I'd easily be able to buy another 30-40 boosters, just by getting reimbursed for a 100feez reduction.
Edit: This was a QQ and complaint thread about the marketplace, and now we have a discussion about the store.
I'm known for being quite the jerk when it comes to vast amounts of complaints about something that people have been unsatisfied with since the start of the game.
Edit 2:
I'm really liking adventure mode <3
It gives ftp players 2-3 cards at random for completing a boss fight, even the shitty nehantists.
Free players had no source of cards before now, other than the weekly cards, now I see shit like this and lol. You can get an arseton of cards for free if you do work. Beating any boss 4 times (60 energy) gives you 8-12 free cards, which is 2-3 120 feez boosters.
http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae29 … icdrop.jpg

Let's make one thing perfectly clear: the devs control the cards value. They control how hard the individual cards are to obtain and they control how playable the card is. They also control how the updates interact with the older cards. And they control how much real money each card cost by the booster cost/pull chance ratio (though they fudge it by the booster layout).

The market is a problem. I say this because I want to be playing Eredan in a year from now. I'm a paying player and i really don't give a rats ass about getting free cards for myself. I just want a balanced game.

Some kind of weird compensation is compeletely out of the question. If someone gets cranky, so be it. I think Eredan would gain far more players then it would loose by fixing the market.

This topic and our opinions might be "shit" to you, but it's still a very important topic for many others. Just lay off the rudeness.

Nurvus · 28-12-2011 17:33:49

@Anihilate, I say bullshit

There is a way to compensate for the price of boosters, since there is a history.
If Feerik changes the price from 400 to 200, then he can simply give the players who spent money on the game a duplicate of all the boosters they've bought so far.

But that's beside the point.

To be honest, those who bought cards at the "old" cost, made crystals at the old, inflated price.

With more boosters out there, there will be more supply, less inflation.
---

On taxes.
The 10% sales tax should increase to 15% or 20%.
Feerik went overboard applying a 30% tax, but he chickened out by reducing it back to 10% instead of trying 15%, 20% or even 25%.
---

A few more limitations:
- When buying or selling a card you already have 3 of, it should not affect the market price at all.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (28-12-2011 17:38:06)

Gabriel_Caetano · 30-12-2011 03:46:15

I really don't mind compensation unless the price drop is insane. I just wish that i went into the market place and had most cards around. I've been trying to get this psychurgist card to level 3 and there are no blackmails and no psychy lvl3 around. This is BS.

Feerik, please, do something about it. Dialog with us at least. We are having shitloads of good ideas on this threads. Thank you.

Talamare · 02-01-2012 00:51:06

Supply and Demand is a broken system now that Adventure mode is released

Think about it, It provides a very large amount of crystal and provides cards that cannot be sold

This means that the influx of crystal will mean that card prices go up and it means people will start relying more on getting random cards from adventure mode

Eventually the market is going to be insanely high prices and its going to only become a means of getting 1 or 2 specific cards

This also means that newer players will be turned off by the game, seeing that they suddenly need massive grinds to get anywhere

Solutions -
Make Adventure mode cards sellable

Slightly reduce the price Feez on boosters, I suggest lowering it to 360

Implement a new 4 pack booster that only has commons and uncommons that costs 1k Crystal (this will convert the excessive crystals into cards, helping to fix the market)

Dernière modification par Talamare (02-01-2012 00:52:48)

Sapphon · 02-01-2012 04:53:43

As for the market issues, we are fully aware of the problems. But as you may have already notice, it's a sensible topic. Devs are still working on it, and will try to tune it slowly, to prevent a new "blood and fire" revolution.

alec1012 · 10-01-2012 13:39:47

Another problem it's the tuning of prices (I'm not sure extensive mods are needed, but some changes should be done). For example Azaram lvl 1 costs around 500 crystals, each demon blame (each uprgrade needs one blade) costs 3700 crystals, gets you to a grand total of 7900 crystals (not taking into account the experience for upgrading it or anything else.

Now, because of the marketplace strict rules that set max price depending on its rarity, you can sell it for 4400 crystals at most. Of course you can't find any azaram over level 2 on the market (that one is scarce as well). Having the lvl 3 version is a waste of money if you're not using it. If you sell it, you will lose 3500 crystals, if you keep it, you will have all those crystals blocked.

The marketplace should also take in account the price of the cards needed to evolve you character, not only said character's rarity.

Erezil · 10-01-2012 15:51:28

alec1012 a écrit :

The marketplace should also take in account the price of the cards needed to evolve you character, not only said character's rarity.

Agreed. At the very least they should make any card that requires an extra card of higher rarity to upgrade, higher in rarity itself. Chestnut, for example, needs an ivory bow to upgrade which is rare but she remains an uncommon. Thats ridiculous. As I type this, there are (2) level 3 chestnuts selling for 13000 crystals while (22) ivory bows are selling for 16000. Most arent going to sell a card they to lose crystals in a game where crystals themselves seem rare lol. She should definitely be a rare after the merge.

If you merge a regular card with a foil...you get a foil. Shouldnt this hold true to te rarity system as well? Otherwise you have a wasted rare and another card likely not to make it to the market place.

Gent M · 10-01-2012 15:55:13

Just for the record you need 3 demonic blades to upgrade azaram to level 3. So double the loss for creating and selling a azaram.

Anyway my advice is to get at least 3 blades as soon as possible.
There were tons of stealing the spotlight on the market in the weeks that followed kuraying's release.....

Gent M · 12-01-2012 00:29:14

Remember the complaints about no demon may rise copies being on sale? Check the market now.

Seems like the return of guild boosters will fix some of the market shortages.

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 27-12-2011 16:31:39

Broken marketplace

#2 27-12-2011 23:31:58

Re : Broken marketplace

#3 28-12-2011 00:09:37

Re : Broken marketplace

#4 28-12-2011 00:31:24

Re : Broken marketplace

#5 28-12-2011 01:45:39

Re : Broken marketplace

#6 28-12-2011 04:25:03

Re : Broken marketplace

#7 28-12-2011 04:53:37

Re : Broken marketplace

#8 28-12-2011 05:28:57

Re : Broken marketplace

#9 28-12-2011 05:35:00

Re : Broken marketplace

#10 28-12-2011 06:19:15

Re : Broken marketplace

#11 28-12-2011 15:25:14

Re : Broken marketplace

#12 28-12-2011 17:33:49

Re : Broken marketplace

#13 30-12-2011 03:46:15

Re : Broken marketplace

#14 02-01-2012 00:51:06

Re : Broken marketplace

#15 02-01-2012 04:53:43

Re : Broken marketplace

#16 10-01-2012 13:39:47

Re : Broken marketplace

#17 10-01-2012 15:51:28

Re : Broken marketplace

#18 10-01-2012 15:55:13

Re : Broken marketplace

#19 12-01-2012 00:29:14

Re : Broken marketplace

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