Eredan's World

Nurvus · 15-02-2011 15:47:26

Fights are extremely random...
...from the damage;
...to the matchups;
...to the fact that while certain decks win or lose regardless of their card Draws, others must get certain cards early to win.

Please read the idea below with an ounce of humility. I didn't pull it out of a dark place.

Idea #1 - Main Idea
Each character would have a new value, either class specific or character specific. Assuming class specific:
Warrior - 1x Item - useable by the character.
Craftsman - 1x Craftsman Item - useable by the character.
Mage - 1x Spell - useable by the character.
Priest - 1x Theurgy - useable by the character.
Marauder - 1x Action - useable by the character.
Mage-Warrior - 1x Spell or Item - useable by the character.
Mage-Marauder-Warrior-Priest - Any card - useable by the character.
...and so on.

What is all the above for?
While building your deck, you'd associate a valid card to each of the 3 characters.
Example: If you take Hares the Brute, you could pick Simple Shield (item).

These cards would be an extension of your Hand.

So you'd have your hand + the character cards.

You'd play the character cards as if they were in your hand.
So essentially you'd start the game with 3 character cards + 5 cards in hand + 12 cards in deck.

This would help give a reasonable strategic flow to the game, by reducing the insane randomness most decks have to coupe (and fail) with.

Alot of decks aren't even possible because of the randomness.

Idea #2 - simpler alternative:
- When building your deck, you get to pick a fixed amount of cards (2 to 5) that will always start in your hand.

The cards available to be picked this way might be limited in a similar fashion to the Idea #1, according to the classes of your characters.
So assuming you get to pick 3 cards, and you have a Warrior, a Marauder and a Mage, you get to pick a Spell, an Item and an Action.

Idea #3 - at the very least:
- Re-shuffling - Option to get a new Hand at start of the game by reshuffling the deck.

However, a simple re-shuffling doesn't solve the excessive randomness of the remaining cards in the deck, and Eredan doesn't have the plentyful cards/card effects for searching the deck for cards found in games like Yu-Gi-Oh or Magic - The Gathering.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (12-06-2011 15:08:58)

bleachman · 15-02-2011 16:15:24

You could also just make a rather well balanced deck and live with occasional shitty hands instead of suggesting revamping and redoing an already well running and well established game.

For that matter I think Magic could do well without land cards. They disrupt the game cause I keep drawing them instead of my powerful cards.

Glasher · 15-02-2011 16:18:45

http://forum.eredan.com/viewtopic.php?id=12171

Run that deck it will stop all your random hating issues

Dernière modification par Glasher (15-02-2011 16:19:32)

Nurvus · 15-02-2011 16:32:29

bleachman a écrit :

You could also just make a rather well balanced deck and live with occasional shitty hands instead of suggesting revamping and redoing an already well running and well established game.
For that matter I think Magic could do well without land cards. They disrupt the game cause I keep drawing them instead of my powerful cards.

But I'm not here to solve the randomness of -MY- deck.
It's a general randomness everywhere.

It's precicely because I have both random and stable decks that I make this comparison - and from battling other decks with apparent issues.

Setting aside the fact that certain decks function fully with 6-8 slots to spare for "counter cards" while others can't spare more than 3 without gimping themselves...
...currently alot of games are lost at Turn 1 because - for example - the 3 last cards of a WitchBlade deck are the [card]Blade of the Witch[/card].

Yes it happened and yes it screws your winning chances against pretty much anything.

In MTG, wich plays with 60 card decks, including Lands, its excessive randomness is softened by the insane amount of cards/effects that help u search the deck/graveyard for a land/creature/spell/artefact/anything and place it in your hand/top of the deck/graveyard/play.
This helps remove alot of randomness since often you either get what you want, or something that helps you go fetch what you want.

With Eredan's much smaller Deck, with most strategies revolving around playing stuff in a certain order, it would greatly help matches being less about godsent luck and more about strategy if there was a slight way to give the players a certain reliability.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (15-02-2011 16:44:22)

Glasher · 15-02-2011 16:43:51

It happens to every1. I just had my first game of the day in elo vs kot warriors starting hand was 3 katamaru 1 bih 1 it is time, great vs a mage or priest...not so much so vs warriors with little to no spirit. But I still ended up winning. While bad hands happen you just gotta roll with the punches. If your holding onto cards you wouldnt get to use for a few turns ***bip*** slowing yourself up.

The draw system is fine, the attack system makes the game much more interesting imo. Its the deck building, and how you play it that determines the best possible outcomes and increases your probability.

[card]A New Start[/card]
[card]Deliverance[/card]
[card]Restored Honor[/card]
[card]Odds and Ends[/card]

If u must have access to ***bip*** deck through your hand try some of those cards.

EDIT: Also if you can't win a match with witchblades without blades you need to work on your deck more. Some witchblades dont even use blades and get to the 1900's...

Dernière modification par Glasher (15-02-2011 16:49:31)

Lonak · 15-02-2011 16:45:49

Having such a small deck would prove quite reliable, and I believe I've seen before a famous TCG where you have 40 cards in your deck, with "some" searchers, but it is all about getting the right card at the right moment.
If there were no luck in TCG, how boring would that be? Think about it

Rathedan · 15-02-2011 19:38:26

If there were no luck in TCG, how boring would that be?

Hello statement of the year winner!

Nurvus · 28-02-2011 01:43:16

In case I failed to point out before:
While some deck strategies are fully functional with under 15 cards, others require nearly 20 to work.

Some decks have cards that work for almost the same purpose.
For example, Courtesan decks have very similar cards that work early, mid, and end game. Be it Ice Barriers, Overwhelming Victory, etc, several cards work towards a similar end and doesn't matter much what order you get them in.

Similar with a mage deck, you have plenty nukes/atk buffs to choose from, often around 9.

Other decks, like Witchblades, are alot more luck based, because there are these 3 cards you need at least 1 of as early as possible - Blade of the Witch; and another 3 that only mean anything when you have either Blade of the Witch or Dragon Armor equipped - Ice Coffin.

Getting them in reverse (items in the end, Coffins at the start) completely screw your game.

All I'm saying is that with all the very interesting deck concepts and strategies, and hopefully even more audacious ones in the future, I hope a little consistency will be given to the game mechanics without necessarily flooding the game with search cards - wich aren't as bad a sollution, but apparently are meant to be rare/unique in Eredan - not to remove luck from the game, but to reduce it's devastating impact on the win/loss merit of certain decks.

I think a game is most fun when you win or lose from your own mistakes and/or your opponent outplaying you, not from luck representing 80% of your Win chance in certain decks, and 10% in others.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (28-02-2011 02:27:04)

Limestone · 28-02-2011 02:08:17

Nurvus a écrit :

Other decks, like Witchblades, are alot more luck based, because there are these 3 cards you need at least 1 of as early as possible - Blade of the Witch; and another 3 that only mean anything when you have either Blade of the Witch or Dragon Armor equipped - Ice Coffin.

You aren't fighting witchblades long enough, they aren't luck based but more of like something else. To point out their signature or staple card is pretty much 3 ice shield, belive me

Anyway about a search card we have something like that somewhere, I don't know maybe restored honor? That is a search card, right?

Eredan-Dan · 28-02-2011 02:17:27

Limestone a écrit :

Nurvus a écrit :
Other decks, like Witchblades, are alot more luck based, because there are these 3 cards you need at least 1 of as early as possible - Blade of the Witch; and another 3 that only mean anything when you have either Blade of the Witch or Dragon Armor equipped - Ice Coffin.
You aren't fighting witchblades long enough, they aren't luck based but more of like something else. To point out their signature or staple card is pretty much 3 ice shield, belive me
Anyway about a search card we have something like that somewhere, I don't know maybe restored honor? That is a search card, right?

You mean The Watcher I think...or Void

Dernière modification par Eredan-Dan (28-02-2011 02:17:39)

Nurvus · 28-02-2011 02:32:50

Limestone a écrit :

Nurvus a écrit :
Other decks, like Witchblades, are alot more luck based, because there are these 3 cards you need at least 1 of as early as possible - Blade of the Witch; and another 3 that only mean anything when you have either Blade of the Witch or Dragon Armor equipped - Ice Coffin.
You aren't fighting witchblades long enough, they aren't luck based but more of like something else. To point out their signature or staple card is pretty much 3 ice shield, belive me
Anyway about a search card we have something like that somewhere, I don't know maybe restored honor? That is a search card, right?

Ice Shield is quite gimmick.
On the positive extreme, you have Melissandre + Quick Draw vs 3 Ice Shields = 9x 2 damage instant kill Melissandre.
On the negative extreme, spell damage casters vs Ice Shields = useless Ice Shield.
On the negative extreme as well, you have Starboard x1 reducing, or x2 nullifying Ice Shield damage.

My point rests solely on the fact that certain decks beat anything with equal chance, while others incorporate gimmick cards and/or require key sacrifices to hold gimmick counter-cards.
These counter-cards must be drawn early enough and are really only useful against specific decks - representing dead cards against every other deck.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (28-02-2011 02:35:44)

Limestone · 28-02-2011 02:45:09

Eredan-Dan a écrit :

Limestone a écrit :
Nurvus a écrit :
Other decks, like Witchblades, are alot more luck based, because there are these 3 cards you need at least 1 of as early as possible - Blade of the Witch; and another 3 that only mean anything when you have either Blade of the Witch or Dragon Armor equipped - Ice Coffin.
You aren't fighting witchblades long enough, they aren't luck based but more of like something else. To point out their signature or staple card is pretty much 3 ice shield, belive me
Anyway about a search card we have something like that somewhere, I don't know maybe restored honor? That is a search card, right?
You mean The Watcher I think...or Void

We're talking about search card that pick card(s) directly from deck not add stuff from the graveyard, much more like restored honor and odds and ends

For nurvus, how many deck has starboard on it? I never see that robotic bee in a match ever, in theory it's a good concept but in reality witches just kill other non mage deck.

Eredan-Dan · 28-02-2011 02:46:42

Limestone a écrit :

For nurvus, how many deck has starboard on it? I never see that robotic bee in a match ever, in theory it's a good concept but in reality witches just kill other non mage deck.

Giving WB's a little too much credit there methinks. They aint that good.

Limestone · 28-02-2011 03:13:20

Agreed most of the witchblades are just half baked deck in the hands of new player.

By the way I have an idea about a search card

Try and Buy,action, uncommon, no restriction

Search your deck and picks 3 card at random. choose one card and discard a card in your hand the two remaining cards are put in the bottom of your deck.

Flavour text "The card(s) is on us if you don't receive any receipt"

It works like this, after the system randomly picked 3 cards, you may choose one card at the expense of one of your card in the hand. The cards is visible so you can choose without fear but must be noted they still random to add luck and fun

Dernière modification par Limestone (28-02-2011 03:22:06)

Nurvus · 05-03-2011 14:32:57

Limestone a écrit :

Agreed most of the witchblades are just half baked deck in the hands of new player.
By the way I have an idea about a search card
Try and Buy,action, uncommon, no restriction
Search your deck and picks 3 card at random. choose one card and discard a card in your hand the two remaining cards are put in the bottom of your deck.
Flavour text "The card(s) is on us if you don't receive any receipt"
It works like this, after the system randomly picked 3 cards, you may choose one card at the expense of one of your card in the hand. The cards is visible so you can choose without fear but must be noted they still random to add luck and fun

#2: Pick exactly 3 cards from the deck: Place 1 in your hand and discard the other 2.

#3: Pick exactly 2 cards from the deck and the opponent chooses 1 of them: You discard that card and place the other in your hand.

And on, and on. Insane amount of possibilities - but I think my idea of associating 2 cards to each character, according to classes, would be a natural way of sorting everything out.

Even now they designed Archmage Anryena to equip the Draconic Scepter directly from the deck, haha.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (05-03-2011 14:36:26)

Nurvus · 12-06-2011 14:53:08

Even simpler idea.
How about you determine your starting hand when building your Deck?

I'll add this to the first post.

Poptolev · 12-06-2011 17:13:16

Nurvus a écrit :

Even simpler idea.
How about you determine your starting hand when building your Deck?
I'll add this to the first post.

Yeah because Mage decks really need to start with Lightningning Bolts, The Hungry Void and The Last Word every single time ...

Your idas would be good IF there are restrictions like - you can't choose a limited (unique) card.

BTW I prefer the first idea .. but a liiiitle different. You can pick a card per character that will be a 100% in your first hand. In other words you start with 3 characters, 3 predetermined non-unique cards and 2 random drawn cards (since the starting hand is 5)

Dernière modification par Poptolev (12-06-2011 17:20:28)

Nurvus · 12-06-2011 18:25:10

You can only chain [card]The Last Word[/card] into [card]Lightning Bolts[/card] if you use [card]Council's Banner[/card] - AoE cards are what it was created for to be honest...

Even if you do that it doesn't win you the game.

And remember everyone would get their starting hands.
That means Nehantists might choose to start with a Perversion or two depending on the deck; other decks with low Spirit might bother putting a single Counterspell or Magic Shield for the starting hand.
Zil might bother going for a Dark Stone Heart or Nehantic Stone.

Things would even out, so to speak.

But I guess restricting Unique cards out of your starting hand is acceptable.
--

This change would increase the fun value of the game tenfold - not just from making games less frustrating (consecutive bad hands, etc), but also by making so many potential decks finally plausible.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (12-06-2011 18:41:39)

Poptolev · 12-06-2011 19:43:15

Nurvus a écrit :

You can only chain [card]The Last Word[/card] into [card]Lightning Bolts[/card] if you use [card]Council's Banner[/card] - AoE cards are what it was created for to be honest...
Even if you do that it doesn't win you the game.

Dump/Play Lightning Bolts, after that The Last Word + The Hungry Void.

I assumed everyone knew the combo.

Anyways ... a Pilkim + order + Prophet + The Last Word .. if that doesnt net you a win ... then nothing will (considering that you've already played the Lightning Bolts to get it to the grave). And even God wont be able to save your opponent if it goes like this

First turn - The Last Word + Council's Banner + Lightning Bolts
Second/Third Turn - The Last Word + The Hungry Void + Lightning Bolts.

Dernière modification par Poptolev (12-06-2011 19:46:09)

Nurvus · 12-06-2011 21:06:01

As I hinted before, I agree it would work out best if Unique cards were not allowed among those 3 starter cards.

But don't forget, even without the aforementioned Unique card restriction, you'd probably see many decks with starting hands including of [card]Obesity[/card]/[card]Fallback[/card]/[card]Perversion[/card], [card]Counterspell[/card]/[card]Magic Shield[/card] and [card]Anathematize[/card]/[card]The Prestige[/card].

If you started first and went for the kill, you'd do 0 damage, then get your Lightning Bolts removed from the game on the opponent's turn.
---

All in all, it would open up loads of strategies and currently latent combos, and allow Feerik team to design even more audacious cards.

No more WitchBlade starting hands consisting of 3 [card]Flicker of Hope[/card] (no effect since all of them are in your hand) and 2 [card]Ice Coffin[/card].

No more The Pack starting hands consisting of 0 Lunation, 0 Obesity/Fallback.

No more Quick Draw starting hands consisting of 0 Quick Draw and/or 0 Hypnotic Melody.

No more IHAS starting hands consisting of 3 [card]Items Have a Soul[/card] and 2 [card]Watcher[/card]

Too many decks are so erratic that at some point you wonder what weights more in your victories? Good strategy, good decision-making or just sheer luck?

Dernière modification par Nurvus (12-06-2011 21:21:59)

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 15-02-2011 15:47:26

Gameplay Suggestion

#2 15-02-2011 16:15:24

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#3 15-02-2011 16:18:45

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#4 15-02-2011 16:32:29

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#5 15-02-2011 16:43:51

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#6 15-02-2011 16:45:49

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#7 15-02-2011 19:38:26

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#8 28-02-2011 01:43:16

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#9 28-02-2011 02:08:17

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#10 28-02-2011 02:17:27

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#11 28-02-2011 02:32:50

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#12 28-02-2011 02:45:09

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#13 28-02-2011 02:46:42

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#14 28-02-2011 03:13:20

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#15 05-03-2011 14:32:57

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#16 12-06-2011 14:53:08

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#17 12-06-2011 17:13:16

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#18 12-06-2011 18:25:10

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#19 12-06-2011 19:43:15

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

#20 12-06-2011 21:06:01

Re : Gameplay Suggestion

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