I strongly believe that all players should have a voice in what changes should be made to the game. It is unfair to ask only those who speak French their opinion. Unfair to the English speakers, the Filipino speakers, the German speakers, the Italian speakers, and the Portugese speakers. It reflects poorly on Feerik to exclude their international players, and reinforces negative stereotypes of French elitism.

I made a post in the topic, in French, saying the same thing as I did in the previous paragraph. http://forum.eredan.com/viewtopic.php?p … 40#p268740

The response I got was unexpected.

Lonak a écrit :

- les français disposent de plus grands moyens de compréhension du jeu (tutoriels, aides de joueurs, wiki, etc.), donc il y a un meilleur taux "d'experts" au sein de la communauté française.

Saying that there are more French "experts" belittles your other players. In addition, in your opening post, didn't you ask for...

Lonak a écrit :

Voilà, en espérant recevoir de nombreux avis d'experts et de non-experts

(translated:So, hoping to receive lots of expert and non-experts.)

Lonak a écrit :

- les français sont les plus actifs, les plus réactifs sur le forum. C'est un fait. On peut poser une question, ils répondront franchement, sans (trop) essayer de tourner la question vers une demande personnelle. Ils sont par ailleurs également actifs sur le wiki, pour mettre à jour les connaissances du jeu, et créent d'eux-même des aides de jeu pour le bien de la communauté française sur le forum et sur Internet.

Part of the reason that the French players are more active on the Forum is BECAUSE of topics like this. The rest of us have little to no feedback from the developers and staff, and so our sections of the forum contain far more speculation and misunderstanding.

Lonak a écrit :

- Avoir un seul sujet me permet de conserver un certain "contrôle" sur ce qui est dit. Je maîtrise la langue de Shakespeare et celle de Cervantès, mais il peut y avoir des points que je comprendrai de travers (contrairement au français), et j'aurai moins de réponses utiles, voires faussées par une incompréhension de ma part.

As far as keeping control of the topic... that is what you have forum moderators for. If you are uncertain of your ability to communicate well with your players internationally, then why did you publish the game in multiple languages?

Lonak a écrit :

Ensuite, si ce système de sondage ne plaît pas dans la forme ou dans le fond, il peut également être abandonné, mais je ne pense pas que cela profite ni aux joueurs, ni à nos Game Designers. Faire évoluer ensemble le jeu n'est-il pas intéressant ?

It won't profit the players or the game designers for players who speak other languages to voice their opinion? Really? Even if all publishing an "official" talk topic does is make the international players feel VALUED, it will have benefited both the players and the developers.

I certainly feel less valued and welcome on this forum and in this game after that response.

Dernière modification par Falanin (19-03-2011 00:08:13)

Breezy414 · 18-03-2011 23:24:58

I agree with everything that was posted in this topic. Apparently because I'm not French I don't matter.. That's just how I'm taking it right now. Isn't that considered Bigotry? Which, as far as I know, isn't allowed?

Either way.. +1 to this entire post.

Glasher · 19-03-2011 00:03:36

I've never been impressed with any french player. But to say they are all bad or all good is a concept I simply cannot agree with. That should be the same logic for them towards us. Which is clearly not the case.

This further proves my thoughts on the game being geared towards the french population rather than the game itself. Please the french and make money over make a good game and make money. Not the greatest of ideas imo but hey to each his own.

Everyday here becomes a new surprise. Lonaks, shade pull was good enough to let me wait around to see any results, but this certainly brings all the credibility I had for him back down.

kemmotar_Veon · 19-03-2011 01:42:10

I feel dissapointed about this... it's sad that feerik think that way mostly because it doesn't matter if you are french or not... what makes you expert or not is how you play not how you speak

syneris · 19-03-2011 07:31:20

I suppose my english money isn't good enough for them either then. And to think, I was actually considering buying some overpriced boosters(compared to every other ccg). Glad I didn't, sorry to all the suckers that did

Proximus · 19-03-2011 10:55:01

It contradicts a bit with the Travian-joint-venture for making the game available to a broader audience. If they want this game to be taken serious from an international perspective, they should make it available to everyone, i.e. using an internationally accepted language. French ain't, we're gamers, not diplomats.

artemis_fowl · 19-03-2011 11:08:11

Their response to the TC's comments just buried them more.

I'm disturbed by the kinds of people running this game. I don't know if they are just having a hard time speaking in English or what? It looks to me, that their answers are not well thought of.

They need to get a good external communications head, that can handle the variety of players they. The answers they gave were the one's you'll get while confronting a 15 year old teenager.
The "young" factor of their company is very evident in this situation. Professionalism is key factor if you want your business to be successful. And their reasons are very biased and unprofessional.

*Removed content - Bleach*

bleachman · 19-03-2011 12:59:18

I have removed posts and content from posts in this thread. The reasons to this is that some of the things said were either flame bait and a bunch of bullshit just to piss people off and stab a fork in places below the belt, the other is because certain content will just make this whole thing escalate into some anti french poo tossing between players.

This thread hits some really concerning points in our community and it's whole. I think we should all behave as adults and as mature as possible to actually achieve something out of this.

On a side note: I will continue removing unnecessary and unproductive posts/content from this thread. If people continue to do it, I will take serious action against them. If You're going to partake in a grown up discussion, act the part.

Politikas · 19-03-2011 13:10:05

I agree that some of the posts was little of (I mean my posts mostly) but that doesn't change the problem itself, or it source. And source isn't Ferrik as company as some of others have posted. Ferik is expanding language support, and doing everything to attract players from all the world.

Dernière modification par Politikas (19-03-2011 13:10:26)

Zurga · 20-03-2011 02:41:42

I'm surprised by this topic and the way it had been done.
This topic is unfair, it does not translate all Lonak has said on this.

The main reason is here:

Lonak a écrit :

- la communauté française connait tout aussi bien le jeu que les communautés étrangères, il n'y a pas de "manque à gagner" à ne pas prendre en compte toutes les autres langues ;

Translation: The french community knows the game as well as the communities from other countries, there is no "lack of knowledge" if the subject is not translated in all languages.

And the other reason is here, but not completely translated:

Lonak a écrit :

- Avoir un seul sujet me permet de conserver un certain "contrôle" sur ce qui est dit. Je maîtrise la langue de Shakespeare et celle de Cervantès, mais il peut y avoir des points que je comprendrai de travers (contrairement au français), et j'aurai moins de réponses utiles, voires faussées par une incompréhension de ma part.

translation: Keeping only one topic allows me to keep some "control" on the subject. I am able to understand Shakespeare language and Cervantes language, but some points explained could be unclair for me and I understand them in the wrong way (which not happen in French), so I will have less usefull answer, and even distorded by error of my part.

The major issue of this, is the possible misunderstanding, there is nothing to do with elitism or anything like that.

Nurvus · 20-03-2011 03:30:56

Lonak didn't say it's a Topic for French people...
...Lonak said it's a French topic - probably because the topic is in the French Forum, where you're supposed to post in French - make sense?

They say you see reality through your own colored glass.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (20-03-2011 03:36:09)

Glasher · 20-03-2011 04:12:43

Thats all well and good but the fact remains a grand debate about the game should be open to everyone. If they feel it makes them work harder thats on them, its a job many other people around the world deal with it everyday. I understand if it's something he does on his own free time but even then it is something they chose to do and should be done to there fullest, for everyone, not one group. It's pretty key in avoiding misunderstandings such as this.

As far as the thread, you could be right with those 2 responses. However the whole topic makes me wonder why the very first few forum topics(before the language divided topics) are french only. I'm no genius but they both look like they should be open.

Samsari · 20-03-2011 14:49:03

Zurga a écrit :

I'm surprised by this topic and the way it had been done.
This topic is unfair, it does not translate all Lonak has said on this.
The main reason is here:
Lonak a écrit :
- la communauté française connait tout aussi bien le jeu que les communautés étrangères, il n'y a pas de "manque à gagner" à ne pas prendre en compte toutes les autres langues ;
Translation: The french community knows the game as well as the communities from other countries, there is no "lack of knowledge" if the subject is not translated in all languages.
And the other reason is here, but not completely translated:
Lonak a écrit :
- Avoir un seul sujet me permet de conserver un certain "contrôle" sur ce qui est dit. Je maîtrise la langue de Shakespeare et celle de Cervantès, mais il peut y avoir des points que je comprendrai de travers (contrairement au français), et j'aurai moins de réponses utiles, voires faussées par une incompréhension de ma part.
translation: Keeping only one topic allows me to keep some "control" on the subject. I am able to understand Shakespeare language and Cervantes language, but some points explained could be unclair for me and I understand them in the wrong way (which not happen in French), so I will have less usefull answer, and even distorded by error of my part.
The major issue of this, is the possible misunderstanding, there is nothing to do with elitism or anything like that.

Each forum have their own mods. Is it complicated to ask some of the zone mod to do the monitoring of the thread and help him to understand it clearly?

yuccaflo · 20-03-2011 15:25:50

Just a question :
Why don't you create a thread by your own ?

There is no staff answer in the french topic, so you can do the same and ask the mod to transmit a summary of your idea...

Samsari · 20-03-2011 17:18:24

yuccaflo a écrit :

Just a question :
Why don't you create a thread by your own ?
There is no staff answer in the french topic, so you can do the same and ask the mod to transmit a summary of your idea...

In my case, I don't know French. So I can't translate the content of the topic. That's why I'm asking for mods to do the translation.

Breezy414 · 20-03-2011 18:32:37

So the best response so far is "Create your own topic". Instead of having the common courtesy of making a topic such as the one talked about in this thread for all regions, the ones left out should just take it up upon themselves to create a topic about it. Gotcha.

yuccaflo · 20-03-2011 18:53:15

This is not a response, this is a question.

Rather than moaning like this, why don't you create a topic about the nomad gameplay, showing the staff than you may have some opinion/idea than french guy doesn't have about this subject.

Don't you think it will be more productive ? And this kind of initiative will not support your request ?

I'm not a staff member, so if you or me create this subject, it's the same.

Dernière modification par yuccaflo (20-03-2011 18:58:12)

Breezy414 · 20-03-2011 19:01:29

That's pretty pathetic if we should be forced to make our own. Granted, I just made a topic about it it's not showing good faith towards the mods who decided to take it upon themselves and focus mainly on one area of the forums than the rest. Rather than going to just one area of the forums and making a post for one group of players, why not do the proper thing as a moderator of a game that is played throughout many countries, and offer them all a chance to speak?

Either way, this is obviously not going to change anything. Might not be "elitism" but obviously it's playing "favorites".

Glasher · 21-03-2011 04:04:57

Regardless of the fact that yes we can have our own discussions here, and completely ignoring how a French post gets a link on every page, the fact remains that Eredans segregation is going to be the ball and chain holding it down. A simple language barrier in this day and age is no excuse to not include any country in this game in anything. That's the bottom line.

Col.Beowulf · 21-03-2011 06:47:12

syneris a écrit :

I suppose my english money isn't good enough for them either then. And to think, I was actually considering buying some overpriced boosters(compared to every other ccg). Glad I didn't, sorry to all the suckers that did

I feel exactly the same. I only support games that actually care for their players free or not, regardless of language and everything. That way even if the game goes south I still have tangible cards in hand to compensate for it.

Dantesan · 21-03-2011 10:01:21

Lonak's topic was misinterpreted, you guys should take a few steps back before shooting the messenger. I understand why you are angry but I think this is due to ongoing frustration more than a simple french topic.

This has clearly brought out some very important issues and feelings concerning the community/dev relationship. It is important and shouldn't be disregarded.

Nothing that I do or say will make you change your mind right now but know that all opinions are important to us, to me whether it is in french, english, spanish, chinese...

I could give you 100 reasons why it is difficult to answer to every single post but I don't think there is any need for that. I'm not here to justify myself nor defend my cause.

I think that at the end of the day, you will have to take a leap of faith and trust that Eredan is still in progress and its community too. Things are changing all the time.

Concerning the topic itself, if there is someone you should shoot for a kill, that would very well be me I apologize if the topic wasn't translated and will try my best to be up to date with the french one. (especially for opinion topics).

Remember that there is a time factor and that things can't always be instant although I'd like them to be.

Remember that nothing stops you from creating topics like this from your own initiative as well, you have mods to back you up, Lonak and myself too.

All this to say that things will get better and that this topic like many others are being read in ALL LANGUAGES.

Please do not hesistate to leave your feedback but as Bleachman said, let's avoid a flame war, especially a nationality war.

Thanks a lot and hope you understand that you guys are not being left out.

Lonak · 21-03-2011 10:54:33

Hi,

I've read this topic, and I understand the frustration that can follow a decision to post this only within the French forums. However, let me explain why I choose to act this way.

First of all, as Zurga told you upper, I do care about all players. I would really want to let every one of you express themselve on those debates. Trust me, I do. But, sorry to say, I do not speak, nor understand, any other languages than French, English and Spanish, which limits me to those forums, and as an extension, to being in touch with the players participating in these languages. You have however moderators to help you on other forums (German, Portuguese, etc.).

Then, the French forums are not "more active because of this kind of topics". That's wrong: French players communicate a lot. It's not made up to make me feel better, it's just facts. I have in charge the forum and the wiki. I see almost daily player updates on improving the French wiki, but only a few a week on other languages, made by moderators only. You are invited to contribute to the wiki in your language, by the way. The wiki is a great knowledge platform for any player, and should be updated more often. Wikis are a community tool, so you have the power to create, enhance, share more with everyone, by contributing, making quality wikipages.

Making this debate about Nomades a French only topic is a decision I made in order to produce a better review of the Nomades' actual state. Understand this well: this is not chauvinism or "French elitism" as I've had the opportunity to read, this is a long reflexion I made, ultimately resulting in posting it only in French. I am French, but I consider myself European, and I've lived in several countries: that should give enough explanation on being quite sad to read that I would care about the French community only. Let me explaing you why I chose to act this way.

I am French, and therefore speak and understand this language the best. I could post this into Spanish and English, and understand most of it (let me underline most), but I could as well completely be mistaking myself on a great, instructive post, and understand it the other way around. Even if that might not be the case, I prefer not to give incorrect details to the dev team, leading in something you, as players, totally do not want, simply because of a translation issue.

Then, I usually demonstrate the community views on these important debates by illustrating my presentation with real comments. Again, for more clarity and for translation issue avoidance, I do not want to give the dev team anything other than French. Most of us do speak English, but again, even if I wouldn't make a mistake on translating that particular sentence, other people I present it to could. I want to present something effective, speaking best as what the community wants overall. Just imagine that because of a mistranslation, your guild gets nerfed horribly. You would shout how unfair and how disgusting this is, and you would be totally right. I want to avoid that, I want to make you happy. So I need to make sure everyone understand completely what I'm saying and what's written during meetings.

French forums are active. English and Spanish, to what I know, are, too. I believe Italian and Brasilian are a lot less active (which is a shame to me, and onto which I do not hold any power unfortunately, because of my language skills). But even English and Spanish are slightly less active: I am not the one creating all the "interesting topics", far from it. A lot of very detailed and useful topics have been the sole decision of players. As I've already posted somewhere in the English forums, a French player playing discard opened a topic on how to beat his own strategy, letting players know how to counter discard. That is only one example of many I could have taken. I have yet to see this on other forums, and I do encourage players to share the knowledge. There are iTCG experts in every language, in every country. Just the fact that I see more knowledge sharing makes the French "noob" player more oriented to where he has to go with his deck, how to get on the with game (free Fee'z, game mechanics, deck types, etc.), so the average player should (and this is a personal view) be more competent if they can read French. Up to you to change that up, and make a lot of useful topics, great wikipages, etc.: I'd sincerely be happy to have that knowledge being internationalized!

Having one topic gives me the possibility to control what's being said more easily than having a topic for each language (some of them I wouldn't be able to understand). I enforce very strict rules on these debates, deleting all counter-productive posts. I wouldn't be able to do that in German, for instance.

Finally, these debates are created so that I can have a better opinion of the community. At the end of the day, I am the one reading, sorting, compiling all those posts, to make it a 15 minutes presentation. And I use them to present certain issues to the dev team. I could do without, as I read enough in 3 languages to have quite a clear view on how it goes. But I want to let players speak out, and I want to create a bond between the community and the team. You are free to post within these topics, or create similar topics that can be passed onto me later on if you wish.

I must make decisions to help the community (worldwise), and trust me, I am really there to help out everyone. Wether you speak or not French, changes might be done according to these debates (or not a single one, even) for ALL players of Eredan iTCG. This pains me to let the debate only in French, but according to my objectives, this is the best way I have. I refuse to stop discussing with everyone, that is why I rely on these debates as one of the ways I keep in touch with every single player, French or not.

Hoping this will answer your questions and fears,

Do not hesitate in creating topics in line with those debates and pass them to me.

Regards,

Lonak.

wildthing333 · 21-03-2011 13:17:35

Hello, yeah i have read the thread and your post lonak and this isn't a slam or anything but more of a thought i had about one particular point you made. Now i don't have the numbers but i would almost bet dollars to donuts that there are more french/Europeans on the game which by having more players gives a greater chance for one of them posting. If i am wrong about that i would gladly concede the point but if I am correct about that guess than it really isnt through any fault of our own that less updates/topics/wiki/what have you happen. Just thought i would put that out there on the table is all.

JarodG64 · 21-03-2011 13:42:50

In my opinion there should be more english speaking people than any one given language simply because if there isn't a dedicated forum in one's language that person will, I think, go to the english one.
So I think that the english community should at least be as active as the french one but it doesn't appear to be so.

Dernière modification par JarodG64 (21-03-2011 16:01:39)

Lonak · 21-03-2011 13:50:21

Hi wildthing,

I thank you for putting up that point, as certainly other people might think that because it's a French game, almost everyone is French out there. Short answer: no.

Dedication isn't about numbers, although it certainly helps

Depending on what you look at, French players are about the same as English, Portuguese, Italian and Spanish, in terms of numbers. Or they are 3rd after Spanish and English, looking at other numbers. You can see French aren't out of your league, far from it

I blame noone by the way. I just put out some cold facts that seem to be counter-intuitive to some players. If anyone wants to participate, you have two major (but not only) options:

- create useful threads, that I am sure bleachman, myself or Dantesan will be happy to pin, if after a while they do prove very useful to everyone ;

- or participate in the wiki, and grow its pages in numbers and in quality. French players have made a topic on the subject, where people keep themselves informed of what they did, where, and ask for any missing feature (I do help putting into pages missing pictures for example, when asked in this thread). There are plans to improve the wiki further, in order to make it more user-friendly, but this is mid-term planning.

We are a community, you're all part of it, and I am part of it too. It may seem a bit hyppie, but open source projects have the same philosophy: share and improve the overall community knowledge. As a Community Manager I would like to set that up with all of you, but I cannot do it alone.

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 18-03-2011 23:21:10

On Fairness

#2 18-03-2011 23:24:58

Re : On Fairness

#3 19-03-2011 00:03:36

Re : On Fairness

#4 19-03-2011 01:42:10

Re : On Fairness

#5 19-03-2011 07:31:20

Re : On Fairness

#6 19-03-2011 10:55:01

Re : On Fairness

#7 19-03-2011 11:08:11

Re : On Fairness

#8 19-03-2011 12:59:18

Re : On Fairness

#9 19-03-2011 13:10:05

Re : On Fairness

#10 20-03-2011 02:41:42

Re : On Fairness

#11 20-03-2011 03:30:56

Re : On Fairness

#12 20-03-2011 04:12:43

Re : On Fairness

#13 20-03-2011 14:49:03

Re : On Fairness

#14 20-03-2011 15:25:50

Re : On Fairness

#15 20-03-2011 17:18:24

Re : On Fairness

#16 20-03-2011 18:32:37

Re : On Fairness

#17 20-03-2011 18:53:15

Re : On Fairness

#18 20-03-2011 19:01:29

Re : On Fairness

#19 21-03-2011 04:04:57

Re : On Fairness

#20 21-03-2011 06:47:12

Re : On Fairness

#21 21-03-2011 10:01:21

Re : On Fairness

#22 21-03-2011 10:54:33

Re : On Fairness

#23 21-03-2011 13:17:35

Re : On Fairness

#24 21-03-2011 13:42:50

Re : On Fairness

#25 21-03-2011 13:50:21

Re : On Fairness

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