Eredan's World

gelfangel · 23-08-2012 17:40:07

Distracted says...
At the start of the fight, the opposing character has defense = 0 until the end of the fight. Yet people are still raising their defense.

I am losing as the hit does not count for as much. Just lost a match by 5 pts where they raised their defense by 6 twice while it was on.

Wreckwood says...
At the start of the fight "Wreckwood" suffers 1 direct damage and will gain +1 Attack for each damage point he has suffered as from the start of the game.

So late game he should be getting some major attack upgrade yet I'm only getting something like +2 or +3 Attack.

In both cases either the mechanic or the wording needs to be changed.

Zurga · 23-08-2012 17:51:46

[card]Distracted[/card] is a permanent card.
So the precision is there to indicate that the def=0 is not valid until the card is throw in the discard pile, that is the standard length of the effect of one card.
The malus defence = 0 ends at the end of turn.
But nothing in the card says that the defence can't be changed after the card does his effect.

[card]Wreckwood[/card] gains bonus on attack only by this automatic direct damage.
Each time he enters in combat, he suffer a direct damage and received +1 Att for each damage he suffer by this method.
This is the meaning of the "as" in the sentence.

At the start of the fight "Wreckwood" suffers 1 direct damage and will gain +1 Attack for each damage point he has suffered as from the start of the game.

So if he enters 3 times in combat during the game, he has +3 attack.

gelfangel · 23-08-2012 17:54:40

Distracted says

Defense = 0 until the end of the fight. It is not a permanent card as it has a duration of 3 fights. So Defense = 0 until the end of the fight means nothing can change the defense, it is 0.

Cheers on the Wreckwood, that makes sense.

Zurga · 23-08-2012 17:59:30

gelfangel a écrit :

Distracted says
Defense = 0 until the end of the fight. It is not a permanent card as it has a duration of 3 fights. So Defense = 0 until the end of the fight means nothing can change the defense, it is 0.

3 fight = card staying after the end of fight, like a permanent one.
If you remove this part to have something like [card]obesity[/card], you have a card that leave the defence to 0 until it goes to the discard pile, like [card]obesity[/card] does.
The malus is def=0 until the end of the fight.
But there is no indication that others cards after that can't change the defence.
Suppose your opponent play [card]obesity[/card], what should be the defence ?
0 ? 2 ?
The card make his effect when the card activates (or when the text says it, at the beginning of fight in this case).
The others cards after that can change the value again.

The wording is correct.
The effect is compliant with the wording.

gelfangel · 23-08-2012 18:08:02

The exact wording is

At the start of the fight, (meaning this happens before the fight starts) the opposing character has defense = 0 until the end of the fight. (this means the opposing characters defense is 0, no matter what they do, until the end of the fight. At the end of the fight the defense goes up but it can not be raised during the fight which is what is happening)

Chain. (this one is obvious)

Duration: 3 fights. (meaning the card stays on my character for three fights)

The card is fairly straight forward. It stays on my characters and only effects the defense of the opposing character in the fight. Not after the fight. So from the time the two cards are moved to the right of the screen the opposing characters defense will ALWAYS be 0 and nothing can change it.

Zurga · 23-08-2012 18:19:46

gelfangel a écrit :

(this means the opposing characters defense is 0, no matter what they do, until the end of the fight. At the end of the fight the defense goes up but it can not be raised during the fight which is what is happening)

This is your interpretation.
The card says only that when the effect is triggered, the defense =0 until the end of the fight.
Nothing else and especially not that another card can't change this value.

Please answer my question :
[card]Distracted[/card] is attached to your character, your opponent plays [card]obesity[/card] + another card.
What should be the defense of your opponent ?

gelfangel · 23-08-2012 18:27:11

0 as the Distracted happened first. Obesity would not happen until the fight has already started. There is no Chain, Defense = 0 means the defense is 0 throughout that fight. If the defense can then be changed then it should say the defense IS 0. = 0 means it will always be 0. '=' is absolute.
Any card game I have ever played, and I have played alot use the same difference between is and =. ie. World of Warcraft

skadooosh · 23-08-2012 18:36:34

gelfangel a écrit :

0 as the Distracted happened first. Obesity would not happen until the fight has already started. There is no Chain, Defense = 0 means the defense is 0 throughout that fight. If the defense can then be changed then it should say the defense IS 0. = 0 means it will always be 0. '=' is absolute.
Any card game I have ever played, and I have played alot use the same difference between is and =. ie. World of Warcraft

well...
Sorry, but this is not how it works here...!

gelfangel · 23-08-2012 18:43:48

also the phrase "until the end of the fight" means that it is 0 until the end of the fight.

There are no full stops no commas just says

defense = 0 until the end of the fight. It was played first so it has precedence over any other cards played within the fight.

So you are saying that even mathematics of "=" does not hold here!

Being a mathematics teacher = means a sign indicating that the quantities on either side are equal. Defense = 0 means the two sides are equal.

using english Defense = 0 until the end of the fight. Means the defense is 0 until the end of the fight. How can this be read or interpreted differently here?

Dernière modification par gelfangel (23-08-2012 18:50:40)

skadooosh · 23-08-2012 18:50:37

no. Until the end of the fight means just that if [card]discracted [/card]is discarded. The defense penalty will still apply.

gelfangel · 23-08-2012 18:51:18

And what is that defense penalty?

skadooosh · 23-08-2012 18:54:48

can you not use your brain?
Let's say the opponent is a mage with 2 defense.
distracted put the defense to 0 at the beginning of the fight.
he plays double clay+clumsiness. He'll get defense=4
not defense=6 because even if distracted got discarded. His effect lasts until the ed of the fight.

gelfangel · 23-08-2012 19:01:04

Apparently I am the one using his brain, but rather than to stoop to your level an start a slinging match I will just keep to topic.

The line says 'defense = 0 until the end of the fight'.

No other way this can be interpreted or read. Defense is 0 through the whole fight. That is the English lanuage. Defense is and will always be 0 throughout that fight. There is no full stop or comma to separate defense = 0 and until the end of the fight. It is a sentence.

You statement that the penalty still applies if the card is discarded is fine but that still means the defense is always 0, which is what the card states.

It is a bug, or the wording on the card needs to be changed.

Dernière modification par gelfangel (23-08-2012 19:01:51)

Zurga · 23-08-2012 19:28:03

Skadooosh, you're wrong, if the card is discarded, the effect disappears.
And you can stay polite, it is not the first time I mention that to you.

Gelfangel, the rules of the game applies here, there is no "mathematical" relation of anything here.
I have also some knowledge about logic even I'm not teaching this matter to others.

You have to refer to the rules of the game.
A card applies from the time it activates to the time it is discarded.
A card can be overwritten by the next card.
[card]Obesity[/card] for example does his defense change from the time it is activated to the time the card is discarded. Basically, the length of a fight.
So, there is no precision on the length of the effect and you find legitimate that the defense can be modified after this card.

[card]Distracted[/card] on another hand length more than a fight (3 fights to be accurate).
If the text is "at the beginning of the fight, the opponent has defense=0" this mean with the rules of the game that the defense=0 stays until the card is discarded.
But, you don't feel no trouble to say that you can modify the defense after that.

To limit the effect to only one combat, you have to precise the length of the effect.
This is what his done with the current text.
No text here forbid to modify the defense after the modification, look [card]dandy[/card] if you want to see some modification prevention.

So to summarize :
- The card stay more than one fight
- The effect intended is for the length of the fight

Please, if you find the text is not correct, propose some other text.

Nurvus · 23-08-2012 20:58:10

Zurga, Wreckwood's text is not only incorrect, it is also poor english.

To avoid any mistakes, it should be (corrections in red):

At the start of the fight, "Wreckwood" suffers 1 direct damage and will gain +1 Attack for each damage point he has suffered from this effect since the start of the game.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (23-08-2012 20:59:40)

Zurga · 23-08-2012 21:19:36

Nurvus a écrit :

Zurga, Wreckwood's text is not only incorrect, it is also poor english.
To avoid any mistakes, it should be (corrections in red):
At the start of the fight, "Wreckwood" suffers 1 direct damage and will gain +1 Attack for each damage point he has suffered from this effect since the start of the game.

I agree.
Put this in the wrong text thread

sMuuth · 24-08-2012 10:04:31

gelfangel a écrit :

The exact wording is
At the start of the fight, (meaning this happens before the fight starts) the opposing character has defense = 0 until the end of the fight. (this means the opposing characters defense is 0, no matter what they do, until the end of the fight. At the end of the fight the defense goes up but it can not be raised during the fight which is what is happening)
Chain. (this one is obvious)
Duration: 3 fights. (meaning the card stays on my character for three fights)
The card is fairly straight forward. It stays on my characters and only effects the defense of the opposing character in the fight. Not after the fight. So from the time the two cards are moved to the right of the screen the opposing characters defense will ALWAYS be 0 and nothing can change it.

you get whrong interpretation
learn the mechanic with other stuff cards like scroll of immobility and Demonic portal or even tartadian Spear
i see no bug here

Sapphon · 24-08-2012 10:49:24

gelfangel a écrit :

(this means the opposing characters defense is 0, no matter what they do, until the end of the fight. At the end of the fight the defense goes up but it can not be raised during the fight which is what is happening)

If we really wanted the defense not to go up during the fight, we would have said so. Like with a "Defense = 0 and no effect can change it until the end of the turn".
We didn't, so it is as Zurga said : the duration indication is only here to say that at the end of the turn the character get his defense back. If no duration was given, he would have had "Defense = 0" until the end of Distracted's duration.

Nurvus · 24-08-2012 13:26:21

gelfangel a écrit :

The line says 'defense = 0 until the end of the fight'.

Let me tell you why it is written that way.
The card has "Duration: 3 Fights."
When an effect on a card with a duration says "Defense = 0", you are suppose to interpret that it will last until the end of your 3rd Fight.

When an effect on a card with a duration says "Defense = 0 until the end of the fight/turn", it means that despite what the card's duration is, the effect has its own specific duration.

In this game, effects or attributes that cannot be changed are indicated as such.
- Such is the case of Ayako (The Attack of your Tsoutai cannot be reduced.)
- Such is the case of most Unknown Class Courtesans that have 0/1 Attack and the card says "The Attack of "Kimiko" cannot be modified."
- Such is the case of [card]Evil Eye[/card] that prevents the opponent from modifying the affected character's Defense or Spirit (they still haven't changed its ridiculous english...).

Lightning-Beak, has "At the start of the fight, Spirit = X where X is the highest Spirit among your characters."
Cards can modify his Spirit after that.

A card effect is just an effect and is changed by other card effects.
If you have Attack +2, and another Attack -2, you end up with Attack +0.

Imagine someone plays Obesity after your Distracted makes his Defense = 0; Obesity will make his Defense = 2.

If you then play [card]The Grand Hunt[/card], he will get Defense -2 = 0.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (24-08-2012 13:28:07)

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 23-08-2012 17:40:07

Distracted and Wreckwood

#2 23-08-2012 17:51:46

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#3 23-08-2012 17:54:40

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#4 23-08-2012 17:59:30

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#5 23-08-2012 18:08:02

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#6 23-08-2012 18:19:46

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#7 23-08-2012 18:27:11

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#8 23-08-2012 18:36:34

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#9 23-08-2012 18:43:48

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#10 23-08-2012 18:50:37

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#11 23-08-2012 18:51:18

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#12 23-08-2012 18:54:48

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#13 23-08-2012 19:01:04

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#14 23-08-2012 19:28:03

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#15 23-08-2012 20:58:10

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#16 23-08-2012 21:19:36

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#17 24-08-2012 10:04:31

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#18 24-08-2012 10:49:24

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

#19 24-08-2012 13:26:21

Re : Distracted and Wreckwood

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