So everyone just express your opinion on discard decks and how they should be abolished, it is absolutely unnecessary. There is only one card that can counter discards, besides the fact that it is a legendary card that goes for 600k crystals, it can easily be denied by a crappy common card, anathemize.

Let your voices be heard, we need to change this system of overpowered discards.

genesyx · 01-01-2012 03:46:36

Norad IV a écrit :

Ok so ice barrier and manipulation still own every deck out there, why hasn't feerik addressed this problem or fixed these cards? Any attack deck, and I mean ANY attack deck, let me empahsize that ANY AND EVERY attack deck stands no chance against this kind of deck.
I personally REFUSE to make a discard deck as it is so stupidly overpowered. ANS you say? Oh wait a common card can neutralize that in an instant, anathemize.
I finally created a unique deck of my own making and got to 1700-1800 ELO but wait every person I face now is a discard deck! wow! It is so utterly impossible to counter these decks, and even after spending 200+ USD dollars on this game I have never ever gotten a single legendary card.
This is why I think I should just quit this game, there is just no balance and feerik never listens to the consumer's demands anyway. How many posts have I seen saying how new weekly releases are stupid and just a money grab? Hundreds!
Anyway this is my rant, I'm sure some will agree and disagree. Take out discards and this game will be so awesome you wouldn't even know. But alas after over a year of playing this game I am becoming very impatient and will spend my money elsewhere, I am only one person after all right?

1st : Ice barrier is no problem (Ishaia is the one causing it to be a problem) and Manipulation,while it is good, it's not totally undefeatable. I'm assuming by attack decks you mean those that deal physical damage, and even for that you're wrong in sense that none of those deck can defeat her.
Some cards that could be used:
- clumsiness
-avalonian's good fortune
-extinct
-crown of the border
-evil eye (for the ice barriers)
-kunai
and etc

and lets not get started with the countless defense =0/superior defense minus cards (stink bomb,kusanagi, magic attack, solaris.....)

2nd problem: Discards are perfectly fine and an acceptable strategy. Even in real life TCG like magic you see discard decks being played, it's just an alternative winning method. Just because your deck can't counter discards doesn't make them overpowered. ANS? I don't have that card (or any of the legendaries ) and I still take on discards okay, it just depends on your deck and strategy really. There are no ultimate decks in this game and every deck has its own weakness. For instance, decks with high recycling ability ( Solar Plastron, litany+supplication, good fortune, origami, pack spirit, danger in delay....) have a fairer chance against discard decks. If it's "utterly impossible" to counter a discard deck, then why isn't everyone building only discard since the other decks are inferior?

3rd: Newly releases are okay in the most part. Sure,there are some bad releases that only add into the total card count (and hence diluting the chances of grabbing specific cards out of packs lesser), but not all releases can be great right? Also (IMO), didn't they standardize the cards available in each different pack according to the act ? For example, act I only have so many cards, and no matter how many new releases are released it wouldn't affect your chance to draw an Assassination from it.

It doesn't matter to me whether you wanna quit the game or not, I'm just pointing out a few points that might seemed reasonable for your problems.

Dernière modification par genesyx (01-01-2012 03:48:09)

genesyx · 01-01-2012 03:55:12

Norad IV a écrit :

In fact to expand this topic, I'd like to take a poll. If you hate discard decks let your voice be heard! Even if you play discard decks, wouldn't you think this game would be better solely on attack/defense/spirit aspects? Discard decks just have such an easy way out it's ridiculous.
So everyone just express your opinion on discard decks and how they should be abolished, it is absolutely unnecessary. There is only one card that can counter discards, besides the fact that it is a legendary card that goes for 600k crystals, it can easily be denied by a crappy common card, anathemize.
Let your voices be heard, we need to change this system of overpowered discards.

I think you're not giving the discards a fair chance here. 1st you said a poll, and then tou went on bashing discard decks on how OP they are, and (IMO) hinting that they SHOULD be tempered with or abolished.

How is discards being an easy way out? Discard decks have 1 strategy,to make the opponent deck out, and they build their decks according to that strategy. From how I see,they're just the same as any other deck, building a deck that resolves around a viable strategy. Sure they don't fight other decks heads on, but that doesn't make it "an easy way out". You need to put off that mind set that killing your opponent's characters/ dealing the most damage is THE acceptable winning condition, while in reality it is AN acceptable winning condition (with decking out being the other). Why else would there be a " lost because you can't draw anymore cards" mechanism planted into the system anyway?

Norad IV · 01-01-2012 04:05:03

Ugh I'm sorry for this post. I was just frustrated after finally getting 10 wins in a row only to go back under 1700 ELO by defeat of discard decks. I'm not here to cause trouble or to troll. I hope no one sees it that way. Just get frustrated that discard decks can win so much without much thought.

Dernière modification par Norad IV (01-01-2012 04:14:28)

genesyx · 01-01-2012 04:27:22

Norad IV a écrit :

Ugh I'm sorry for this post. I was just frustrated after finally getting 10 wins in a row only to go back under 1700 ELO by defeat of discard decks. I'm not here to cause trouble or to troll. I hope no one sees it that way. Just get frustrated that discard decks can win so much without much thought.

nah it's okay. Yeah I understand how discard can make people feel "ughhh why can't he fight me! " and get really frustrated. I also agree (to a certain extend) on discards needing a lil' less thought on play style since they kinda do the same thing over and over again. No harm done
Sorry for sounding too harsh on my previous comments as well.

Dernière modification par genesyx (01-01-2012 04:28:21)

Gent M · 01-01-2012 10:09:49

I've seen similar topics a few times already and genesyx has nailed it perfectly.
Discard is not overpowered but rather Ishaia and manipulation is.

As for standard discard gameplay it is certainly more imaginative then items have a soul, zil marauders, kotoba warriors or noz blast mages .
Also no matter how you put it the vast majority of decks have a straight forward strategy.
IHAS - discard and then play the action cards
Noz mages - play spells (no thinking - it's all about having the right cards)
Vital syphon - only tricky part is managing your desolation in the heart cards
Immortals - build the standard deck then just play random cards taking care to chain

So although I empathize with your situation - building an imaginative deck and being destroyed by a certain deck type - I want to point out that most powerful decks have a very standard gameplay mechanic.

Also just because the market system greatly favors (ex)paying old players opposed to paying new ones and you will never afford a new start (there are plenty out there especially in ELO) even if you dish out more hundreds of $, so discard shouldn't be disbanded just because of that

Dernière modification par Gent M (01-01-2012 11:45:22)

Sapphon · 01-01-2012 11:32:25

Hello everybody,

I just wanted to say that discards dont rule ELO at all. If I look at december ELO's stats, for example, I can see that there are only one or two discard players in the top 10 each week. I know it's one of the most frustrating deck ever (thanks to Magic, I've hated discard/grindstone decks for more than 15 years. I could rant on them for hours ;p), but it's not that game breaking. Just terribly boring to play against if you dont have one of the proper deck

PatrikÅkervinda · 01-01-2012 13:44:32

I just don't get this. Why are discard decks and decks with alternate wincons soooo boring? I love alternate wincons myself but really don't think that it looks strong enough here in Eredan.

It's just a matter of metaplay. If YOU don't get the metagame enough to know which cards to play to counter the different decks you meet, then you'll loose, no matter which deck you play.

Some of the strongest tournament decks in MTG has been the ugliest pieces of unrelated cards in a pile that you can imagine. But they won a landslide victory because the player understood the metagame.

But I wander from the subject.

Stop. Think. Then change your deck to counter those discards, while maintaining a good win ratio against the others. The ELO results seem to say that it's doable.

MrLordi92 · 01-01-2012 17:35:35

Sapphon a écrit :

Hello everybody,
I just wanted to say that discards dont rule ELO at all. If I look at december ELO's stats, for example, I can see that there are only one or two discard players in the top 10 each week. I know it's one of the most frustrating deck ever (thanks to Magic, I've hated discard/grindstone decks for more than 15 years. I could rant on them for hours ;p), but it's not that game breaking. Just terribly boring to play against if you dont have one of the proper deck

You'll hate Standard now in Magic, then. There's a Black/Blue mill strategy in a control shell doing pretty good right now. Not to mention the combo of Grindstone and Painter's Servant -_0.

Anyways where can we find these stats you speak of? Is it yet another thing the French people have access to that the English-speaking people don't?

Santuros · 01-01-2012 20:44:48

PatrikÅkervinda a écrit :

I just don't get this. Why are discard decks and decks with alternate wincons soooo boring? I love alternate wincons myself but really don't think that it looks strong enough here in Eredan.
It's just a matter of metaplay. If YOU don't get the metagame enough to know which cards to play to counter the different decks you meet, then you'll loose, no matter which deck you play.
Some of the strongest tournament decks in MTG has been the ugliest pieces of unrelated cards in a pile that you can imagine. But they won a landslide victory because the player understood the metagame.
But I wander from the subject.
Stop. Think. Then change your deck to counter those discards, while maintaining a good win ratio against the others. The ELO results seem to say that it's doable.

I kinda agree with you, the fact to win is to use cards that do well in the meta, and discards decks do well against a lot of strategies. I would like to see more cars like Contortion, that require knowledge of the strong cards of the opponent and act according to the opposing deck and not just discard and discard...

Sapphon · 02-01-2012 04:50:11

MrLordi92 a écrit :

Anyways where can we find these stats you speak of? Is it yet another thing the French people have access to that the English-speaking people don't?

Nah. They are just stats our Game Designers use to balance card releases (and for ugly elo restrictions).

MrLordi92 · 02-01-2012 06:22:40

Sapphon a écrit :

MrLordi92 a écrit :
Anyways where can we find these stats you speak of? Is it yet another thing the French people have access to that the English-speaking people don't?
Nah. They are just stats our Game Designers use to balance card releases (and for ugly elo restrictions).

Glad these are easy for the public to get a hold of

Sapphon · 02-01-2012 10:31:28

Actually it's just a gdoc someone (Tandyys, for the record) is taking care of as "personnal note" on the matter. I dont think it's a secret information. It's just that nobody really asked for. I'll try to see if there's no problem in sharing these priceless informations.

Nurvus · 02-01-2012 17:16:05

Tsoutaï laugh at [card]Manipulation[/card], thanks to [card]Ayako[/card].

Loads of cards destroy permanent stackers - except most deck builders ignore that permanent stackers exist and just think they can bruteforce them.

Most of the people complaining about discard decks, are usually those playing build-up decks.

It "almost" goes as a rock-scissors-paper-rock, where buildup beats beatdown, wich beats discard, wich beats buildup
---
Sapphon, would be lovely to get some official opinion other than "looking at" on some of the more constructive posts under the Suggestions forum.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (02-01-2012 17:17:18)

Sapphon · 02-01-2012 18:42:43

Nurvus a écrit :

Sapphon, would be lovely to get some official opinion other than "looking at" on some of the more constructive posts under the Suggestions forum.

Yep, I know. I didnt have much time to get the work done this last months, but I'll do it as soon as possible. Sorry for the delay and troubles

TPPK · 02-01-2012 18:56:31

I hope you are aware that basing elo restrictions on this stats is ridiculous?

All it does is restrict the cheapest decks that work and not the overpowered parts. In no way these restrictions bring "balance" to the game.

Also note that I don't find it wrong to restrict some overused cards just to get some variation in top elo, I'm just saying the stats are pointless for balancing.

"Other" information from them is priceless and I'm extremely interested in these stats.

Sapphon · 02-01-2012 19:31:07

Restrictions arent just there to bring balance to the force... I mean, to the elo. Restrictions help to break metagame so you dont find the same game weeks after weeks and to experiment things, too.

PatrikÅkervinda · 02-01-2012 20:00:46

Sapphon a écrit :

Actually it's just a gdoc someone (Tandyys, for the record) is taking care of as "personnal note" on the matter. I dont think it's a secret information. It's just that nobody really asked for. I'll try to see if there's no problem in sharing these priceless informations.

Erm. I'd love to see this! It's kinda essential for a newbie like me who hardly know all the deck archetypes.

MrLordi92 · 03-01-2012 05:35:43

Sapphon a écrit :

Restrictions arent just there to bring balance to the force... I mean, to the elo. Restrictions help to break metagame so you dont find the same game weeks after weeks and to experiment things, too.

Yet nothing from Discard has been banned in a while. Theft is the only one, and it's arguably the least powerful card in Discards arsenal. Ban Abyssien, then you can take out Shadow Mages and Zil Discard in one fell swoop.

Gent M · 03-01-2012 10:08:40

MrLordi92 a écrit :

Yet nothing from Discard has been banned in a while. Theft is the only one, and it's arguably the least powerful card in Discards arsenal. Ban Abyssien, then you can take out Shadow Mages and Zil Discard in one fell swoop.

Treacherous is essential for discard and it has been banned 2 weeks in a row.

MrLordi92 · 03-01-2012 15:08:33

Gent M a écrit :

MrLordi92 a écrit :
Yet nothing from Discard has been banned in a while. Theft is the only one, and it's arguably the least powerful card in Discards arsenal. Ban Abyssien, then you can take out Shadow Mages and Zil Discard in one fell swoop.
Treacherous is essential for discard and it has been banned 2 weeks in a row.

It's still prominent. They should ban Panic, that one's exponentially powerful. Treacherous is good, but spirit isn't guaranteed. Not to mention they still have The Psychurgist and Blackmail.

Anihilate · 03-01-2012 15:55:05

Nurvus a écrit :

Tsoutaï laugh at [card]Manipulation[/card], thanks to [card]Ayako[/card].
Loads of cards destroy permanent stackers - except most deck builders ignore that permanent stackers exist and just think they can bruteforce them.
Most of the people complaining about discard decks, are usually those playing build-up decks.
It "almost" goes as a rock-scissors-paper-rock, where buildup beats beatdown, wich beats discard, wich beats buildup
---
Sapphon, would be lovely to get some official opinion other than "looking at" on some of the more constructive posts under the Suggestions forum.

I'm playing a build up, never seem to have a problem with circus. Hence the almost? :3

@OP: There are plenty of play types etc. No one deck beats everything. Mill is a legitimate, albeit slow and boring, strategy. It is also easily readable in terms of what they're going to play.
If you can, try prestige, it tackles most strategies that revolve around a certain set of cards. The top 3 elo players per week usually have decks that keep room set aside in them to specifically counter other meta-strategies.
I'll lose to physical beatdowns (anything that can have multiple characters top 14 attack turns 1-3) but anything slower will either die, or run out of cards before I do. Before my current, I played with a vast variety of FOG HYDRA decks. Were they all fantastic? No, but they all held out equally against meta strategies.
It's a game of wits too, so cheer up ^^

Gent M · 04-01-2012 11:34:10

MrLordi92 a écrit :

Gent M a écrit :
MrLordi92 a écrit :
Yet nothing from Discard has been banned in a while. Theft is the only one, and it's arguably the least powerful card in Discards arsenal. Ban Abyssien, then you can take out Shadow Mages and Zil Discard in one fell swoop.
Treacherous is essential for discard and it has been banned 2 weeks in a row.
It's still prominent. They should ban Panic, that one's exponentially powerful. Treacherous is good, but spirit isn't guaranteed. Not to mention they still have The Psychurgist and Blackmail.

I think you have not played discard decks very often.
With tons of cards that reduce attack you can defend against their strongest blow (look away + tadaa -8 attack, LA + chiroscuro -3 attack 3 heal, LA + fall back ) so you can usually keep marauders and especially warriors in check (at least 2 out of the 3 first turns) and survive for 5 turns, but mages can deal a lot of fast damage to discard and if they one shot one of your cards there's a rather big chance you will lose.

MrLordi92 · 04-01-2012 15:08:57

Gent M a écrit :

MrLordi92 a écrit :
Gent M a écrit :
Treacherous is essential for discard and it has been banned 2 weeks in a row.
It's still prominent. They should ban Panic, that one's exponentially powerful. Treacherous is good, but spirit isn't guaranteed. Not to mention they still have The Psychurgist and Blackmail.
I think you have not played discard decks very often.
With tons of cards that reduce attack you can defend against their strongest blow (look away + tadaa -8 attack, LA + chiroscuro -3 attack 3 heal, LA + fall back ) so you can usually keep marauders and especially warriors in check (at least 2 out of the 3 first turns) and survive for 5 turns, but mages can deal a lot of fast damage to discard and if they one shot one of your cards there's a rather big chance you will lose.

When did I start talking about their defensive capabilities?

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 01-01-2012 03:12:27

discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#2 01-01-2012 03:33:01

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#3 01-01-2012 03:46:36

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#4 01-01-2012 03:55:12

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#5 01-01-2012 04:05:03

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#6 01-01-2012 04:27:22

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#7 01-01-2012 10:09:49

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#8 01-01-2012 11:32:25

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#9 01-01-2012 13:44:32

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#10 01-01-2012 17:35:35

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#11 01-01-2012 20:44:48

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#12 02-01-2012 04:50:11

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#13 02-01-2012 06:22:40

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#14 02-01-2012 10:31:28

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#15 02-01-2012 17:16:05

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#16 02-01-2012 18:42:43

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#17 02-01-2012 18:56:31

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#18 02-01-2012 19:31:07

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#19 02-01-2012 20:00:46

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#20 03-01-2012 05:35:43

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#21 03-01-2012 10:08:40

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#22 03-01-2012 15:08:33

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#23 03-01-2012 15:55:05

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#24 04-01-2012 11:34:10

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

#25 04-01-2012 15:08:57

Re : discard decks STILL rule the ELO even after a year of releases

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