Eredan's World

Nurvus · 01-12-2010 19:30:27

EDIT: A new card [card]Anazra[/card] was added to the WitchBlade castle.
Funny enough, Anazra is uncommon as well, doesn't "eat" 2 cards to reach Lv3, is capable of reaching Lv4, is stronger in everything except turn bonus and has a unique power.
Just helps me make my point below.

This is a small discussion with a suggestion in the end, regarding what I believe to be an unfair disparity in power between two cards with very similar purposes & similar rarity.

[card]Eglantyne the Witchblade[/card] (Upgrade 1)
Upgrade 2 has Defense +1 & an additional Defense +1 when Moira is in play.
[card]Moira the Witchblade[/card] (Upgrade 1)
Upgrade 2 has Spirit +1, Attack +1/+0 & an additional Defense +1 when Eglantyne is in play.
[card]Eglantyne and Moira[/card]
So the sisters are now closer together than ever, so much that they are a single card, but while their individual defense when fighting alongside each other is 4, their "combined" defense is not 4, not even 3, but 2...

* Compared to Eglantyne, it has Spirit +1, Attack -1/+1, Health +1, loses +2 defense from being paired with her sister and gains Warrior class, benefitting from some more items but at the same time becoming vulnerable to a wider range of marauders.
* Compared to Moira, it has Attack +0/+1, Health +1, loses +2 defense from being paired with her sister and gains Marauder class, with Attack +1 against Warriors but becoming vulnerable to a wider range of marauders.

Only the Order bonus is a real improvement.
Yet, it stops at Upgrade 3...

[card]Golemarlok[/card]
This card (Upgrade 2) is as good as Eglantyne and Moira (Upgrade 3).
- It's Defense +2 against golems is more gimmick than Attack +1 against Warriors, but also more powerful.
- It's Mage-Warrior class mix is vulnerable to a smaller variety of opposing Marauders than Mage-Warrior-Marauder
- It's Human-Golem race mix allows him to equip anything and always get the best class or race bonus associated with said item.
(example, Short Sword will always give +3 attack to Golems, even if said golem is a Marauder or a Priest)

Furthermore, it has Upgrade 3 and 4.
At Upgrade 3, it is:
Spirit 2 (+0 than Eglantyne & Moira)
Attack 6/8 (+2/-1 than Eglantyne & Moira)
Defense 2 (+0 than Eglantyne & Moira)
Health 14 (+1 than Eglantyne & Moira)

At Upgrade 4, it is:
Spirit 2 (+0 than Eglantyne & Moira)
Attack 6/9 (+2/+0 than Eglantyne & Moira)
Defense 2 (+0 than Eglantyne & Moira)
Health 15 (+2 than Eglantyne & Moira)

-----
[Suggestion]
Eglantyne and Moira should be changed into something more coherent with their concept, and added a 4th Upgrade.

Upgrade 3:
Spirit 2 (matches the best of both individual sisters = Moira)
Attack 5/8 (matches the best of both individual sisters = Eglantyne; +1/-1 comparing to current)
Defense 4 (better represents their "union")
Health 12 (Health -1 comparing to current)
Attack +1 against Warriors.
Turns 1, 2, 5 and 6: Defense +1. (Attack -1 comparing to current)

So here I suggest trading +1 attack on specific turns & 1 health for a Defense +2 that better represents their union and previous ability, as well as a non-improving change to their Attack score.

Upgrade 4:
Spirit 2
Attack 5/8
Defense 4
Health 13
Attack +1 against Warriors.
Turns 1, 2, 5 and 6: Attack +1 and Defense +1.

Here the extra health and turn based attack bonus finally kick in, and it seems more balanced with Golemarlok.

Essentially, all I did was add +2 defense and spread their evolution throughout 2 Upgrades.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (17-12-2010 19:07:42)

Rathedan · 01-12-2010 19:37:07

I'd wait and see if theres any more caste synergy before suggesting much more for the witchblades

Right now, you can throw them in with the DKs, but thats a novelty at best IMO.

If they bring out more witchblades in the future and make them a full on caste, you might find that the 3 levels are fine and maybe very strong.

I do agree on the defense though....the 2 of them had massive defense when separated, I figured at least 3 was appropriate when they fuzed....

Nurvus · 01-12-2010 19:41:57

Rathedan a écrit :

I'd wait and see if theres any more caste synergy before suggesting much more for the witchblades
Right now, you can throw them in with the DKs, but thats a novelty at best IMO.
If they bring out more witchblades in the future and make them a full on caste, you might find that the 3 levels are fine and maybe very strong.

That can be said about Golemarlok as well - who knows what other synergy will come for this card in the future?
The difference is that Golemarlok is already way stronger than the combined sisters and already can enter powerful decks as more than a sidekick.

Rathedan a écrit :

I do agree on the defense though....the 2 of them had massive defense when separated, I figured at least 3 was appropriate when they fuzed....

Yep that was one of the main points of this suggestion...

I've taken into account the cards available to the Noz and the Zil and available to both, and must say apart from different playstyles there isn't a blatant advantage on Witchblade side.

In fact, I see disadvantage in where they must include, draw and waste 1 of 2 actions with Dragon's Call just to become able to use or benefit from Dragon Knight related cards; while Golemarlok can use every item...

Dernière modification par Nurvus (01-12-2010 19:48:04)

Cartel · 01-12-2010 19:42:17

Couldn't agree more with the original poster. They need an upgrade, even when more witchblades cards/characters come out. Doesn't make sense to have 2 cards combine and be worse than the 2 originals. I thought his idea of having them be on par with golemarlok is a perfect idea, not that it'll ever happen, but ya.

Dracatis · 01-12-2010 21:23:35

I agree with this. Even if their defense was 3 just because the vulnerability to losing one sister is gone I'd be a lot happier. For now I'm only combining a pair for the achievement(Mainly because I have extras), I doubt I'll ever actually use them.

ashman · 01-12-2010 21:50:44

Dracatis a écrit :

I agree with this. Even if their defense was 3 just because the vulnerability to losing one sister is gone I'd be a lot happier. For now I'm only combining a pair for the achievement(Mainly because I have extras), I doubt I'll ever actually use them.

So far, they've proven best for me when left in L1.

That way, you can use the both of them in these L1-only tournies that keep popping up. Together, they actually are pretty strong at L1.

--A

Nurvus · 01-12-2010 22:02:13

Dracatis a écrit :

I agree with this. Even if their defense was 3 just because the vulnerability to losing one sister is gone I'd be a lot happier. For now I'm only combining a pair for the achievement(Mainly because I have extras), I doubt I'll ever actually use them.

The problem is that not only do the stats make no sense (low defense), they are also inferior to Golemarlok by 3 points. -2 Health, -2/-0 attack, with no meaningful advantage.

Not only that, the fact that Golemarlok is only 2 classs actually makes him better (vulnerable to less Marauders).
As if it wasn't enough, the fact that Golemarlok is a Golem makes him even better.

Francis_Desforges · 01-12-2010 22:26:13

Now compare the witchblades to [card]The Eternal[/card] or [card]Ateb[/card]. More classes, more def, more health than Golemarlok. Cards of different guilds have different stats.

Nurvus · 01-12-2010 23:16:11

Francis_Desforges a écrit :

Now compare the witchblades to [card]The Eternal[/card] or [card]Ateb[/card]. More classes, more def, more health than Golemarlok. Cards of different guilds have different stats.

Except The Eternal and Ateb have no guild - guild-specific cards often have some perks to it.
More classes is actually bad.

While there are Tempus-specific cards, they are nothing like the Desert Nomads boosting each other; certain Desert Nomad specific cards; The Pack; Dragon Knights and so on.

On the other hand, there are nearly no "Witchblade" cards.

There's nothing between Golemarlok and "Eglantyne and Moira" that give the later enough advantage to make them balanced with each other.
They don't have to be 100% equivalent - but the advantage of Golemarlok is ridiculous.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (01-12-2010 23:19:14)

Nurvus · 17-12-2010 18:42:33

Funny enough, [card]Anazra[/card] is the new WitchBlade card and it actually helps me on my point that [card]Eglantyne and Moira[/card] is weak even by WitchBlade standards.

Anazra is uncommon as well, doesn't "eat" 2 cards to reach Lv3, is capable of reaching Lv4, is stronger in everything except turn bonus and has a unique power.

Here's my final suggestion on the cards:
Eglantyne and Moira Lv3

Eglantyne and Moira Lv4

Dernière modification par Nurvus (17-12-2010 19:06:46)

silversaint · 19-12-2010 03:15:47

Noz already have so powerful with every char inside... it's only natural that there's some lack of power in some char... otherwise, everyone will running noz deck...

Papa_Frita · 19-12-2010 20:43:56

Nurvus a écrit :

Funny enough, [card]Anazra[/card] is the new WitchBlade card and it actually helps me on my point that [card]Eglantyne and Moira[/card] is weak even by WitchBlade standards.
Anazra is uncommon as well, doesn't "eat" 2 cards to reach Lv3, is capable of reaching Lv4, is stronger in everything except turn bonus and has a unique power.
Here's my final suggestion on the cards:
Eglantyne and Moira Lv3
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/3487/enmfancard.png
Eglantyne and Moira Lv4
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7122/enmfancard2.png

i was in total disagreement with the original poster, since moira and egl are part of lots of combinations for strong decks, and and improvement to it, yes, it would reach balance in relation to golemarlok, but would gain OP to a lot more decks.

BUT i have to say your upgrade idea is not that extreme and really could work.

steven_allen · 20-12-2010 06:12:03

I agree that they're underpowered, but they do have the advantage of being mage-marauder and warrior, instead of one or the other. But yeah, I hope something will come along to replace/augment them.

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 01-12-2010 19:30:27

Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#2 01-12-2010 19:37:07

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#3 01-12-2010 19:41:57

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#4 01-12-2010 19:42:17

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#5 01-12-2010 21:23:35

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#6 01-12-2010 21:50:44

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#7 01-12-2010 22:02:13

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#8 01-12-2010 22:26:13

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#9 01-12-2010 23:16:11

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#10 17-12-2010 18:42:33

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#11 19-12-2010 03:15:47

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#12 19-12-2010 20:43:56

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

#13 20-12-2010 06:12:03

Re : Coherence: Golemarlok vs the Witchblades

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