Eredan's World

kilcosu · 10-12-2012 18:13:42

this is the newly edited and my current deck

Characters:
[card]Torment[/card]
[card]The shadow, lady of the nehant[/card]
[card]Utkin, nehant kid[/card]

Spells:
[card]Cutting all ties[/card] - 3

Actions:
[card]Fatal countdown[/card] - 3
[card]Hesitation[/card] - 3
[card]Illumination[/card] - 1
[card]Dark fury[/card] - 3
[card]One hit, One dead[/card] - 2
[card]Paranoia[/card] - 3
[card]The secret of the crow[/card]
[card]time to die[/card]

After making afew changes like adding [card]torment[/card] and [card]time to die[/card] the stopping power has gone up while still keeping their hand size down to 2 or no cards. with [card]hesitation [/card]coming into play more frequently and the extra card drawn from [card]paranoia[/card] it's easier to draw the cards needed to get the job done

Dernière modification par kilcosu (19-12-2012 15:04:21)

Ryken · 10-12-2012 22:01:50

Maybe [card]Break the second chain[/card] to use [card]Cutting all ties[/card] twice? Or maybe [card]Demoniac Agility[/card] to untap your Lady of Nehant to use her ability if your opponent works their way around her?

Dernière modification par Ryken (10-12-2012 22:02:12)

WindStalker · 12-12-2012 09:38:22

The same lineup but with Torment instead of Anagram is better. Torment might not be a guemelite but a good hand lock lineup needs him for offensive capability. For locking the opponent's hand, if you play the cards and turns in the proper manner, The Shadow Lady and Utkin will be enough.

Suggest you add in another Hesitation. You need Hesitation FAST, so you'll need 3 for higher chance of hitting it during the first 2 turns. Plus you won't be needing 2 illuminations, remove one and replace it with Break the second chain. Against some decks you'll need to lock them as long as possible, and personally for this deck I reckon 3 Cutting all ties are not enough. And of course Break the second chain counters Dissidence, making sure your Cutting all ties kicks in.

Two more core cards which you've missed out are ...until someone gets hurt and Artrezil's Heritage. The former helps massively in finishing off characters (when they are already locked) and the latter helps in cancelling off their ATK to -5 max. (very handy in your survival)

For the other cards, just add in the chains and you're good to go! Good luck

kilcosu · 12-12-2012 19:58:02

Is this a deck type that can survive well enough if the deck count goes over 20? or should it be kept at 20

WindStalker · 13-12-2012 05:06:19

The trick for this deck type is that Cutting all ties is the ultimate core card. So there'll be situations whereby you get a bad hand yourself and you're forced to discard, hoping Cutting all ties will next appear in your hand. So sometimes you'll run out of cards too soon in the hope of locking the opponents' hand. Personally 20 is too little I reckon, build your deck towards the 23-25 mark I'd say

perhaps adding some Distracted and Outlaws for chains would do just nice

Dhaonrisemlan · 27-12-2012 18:51:52

How is this deck doing by the way? Is it good?

Also can you replace Torment with something else?

Noir420 · 27-12-2012 21:12:01

Torment can be replaced with Hate, for speed up of hand lock. With 3 It's All Fun... and 3 ...Until someone get hurt, to make up the damage. But you loose the ability to use Cutting All Tieswith all 3 character, but if done right even Countdown will keep there hand at 1-0 cards.

Dernière modification par Noir420 (27-12-2012 21:17:40)

Dhaonrisemlan · 27-12-2012 22:50:52

Interesting. DO you have a total cost for this deck without Torment?

kilcosu · 27-12-2012 23:13:46

Dhaonrisemlan a écrit :

Interesting. DO you have a total cost for this deck without Torment?

Roughly around 107K without [card]torment[/card] leaving you with 1 more character needed and 390 feez if you don't have the trophy cards.

Dernière modification par kilcosu (27-12-2012 23:14:14)

iQuit · 28-12-2012 01:18:44

Replacing [card]Torment[/card] with [card]Hate[/card] can make the hand-lock more effective , but be careful , Hate is not a strong character , she can be killed easily .

Something about hand deny with [card]Hate[/card]

- Playing [card]Cutting all ties[/card] when your opponent has more than 1 card in his hand after playing his card is a waste , simply use [card]Fatal countdown[/card] ( which leaves your opponent with 2 cards in his hand next turn )
- If you are going second , they will pick Utkin 1st turn , DON'T play [card]Cutting all ties [/card], fight like a real marauder with attack bonus and shit . 2nd turn pick Hate , try to keep her alive . 3rd turn the crucial turn , this is the time you play [card]Cutting all ties[/card] , leaving your opponent with 0-1 card in his hand . Turn 4 pick Utkin , play cutting all ties , turn 5 they will pick The shadow , simply play [card]Cutting all ties [/card].
This way your opponent won't have a chance to play a card 3 turn a row .
- Hand deny suffers from the lack of stat boost , try to balance between locking your opponent and killing their characters .
- A Kotoba Warrior with armor and weapon attached on can easily take 2 of your characters down , [card]Paranoia[/card] is a must in the deck .
- [card]Artrezil's Heritage[/card] is a good card on Hate because most of the time your opponent's hand is empty .

Hand deny can be fun and strong against some decks but decks with high survivability like Immortals and Temple Guardian are a pain in the ass

Dernière modification par iQuit (28-12-2012 01:20:14)

kilcosu · 28-12-2012 02:00:46

going second really is one of the better options with hand deny decks, whether you have [card]hate[/card] or [card]torment[/card] there is nothing better than returning the last 2 cards in their hand with shadow followed by [card]cutting all ties[/card].

going second: my ideal hand
turn 1[card]utkin, nehant kid[/card] - [card]hesitation[/card] + anything
turn 2[card]Torment[/card] order bonus - [card]Dark fury[/card] + [card]fatal countdown[/card] (someones dying)
turn 3[card]The shadow, lady of the nehant - [/card] [card]dark fury[/card] + [card]illumination[/card] or [card]cutting all ties[/card]

then kill...

Islen · 14-01-2013 05:48:54

[card]Cutting all ties[/card] is the key card of this deck : so, you need 3 [card]illumination[/card] too in case of hand without [card]Cutting all ties[/card]. Obviously, you can get one of these three card OR wasting [card]Break the second chain[/card] with the first [card]Illumination[/card].
But trust me : it is worth it ! If u can't pick up this card fast, you are fuc...
(And yes, for the same reason, you MUST get [card]Break the second chain[/card] in your deck)

About [card]Paranoia[/card], I agree with iQuit : it's a must have. And not only for the discard effect : usually, you play more often for the card advantage effect (even if discard effect sometimes saved me, against DK deck for example).

About [card]Hate[/card], I think it is a BIG mistake to play her instead or [card]Torment[/card]. I know his draw card less effect can look sexy, but this caracter is too weak.
The problem of No Hand deck is not the hand control, but the survivability : lots of decks have high native stats, or survivability (or they just need a few amount of cards to reach good stats - e.g : [card]Ourenos[/card], hunting pack, kotoba wariors, guemelite trackers, mercenary decks, etc).
So, you will leak of stats to finish them, or to win the game (cuz the most part of the deck is hand control, you just have a few amount of attack boost - and no survivability boost). You need [card]Torment[/card] !!!

I'm playing Nehant decks since a long time. Actually, i'm playing a no hand deck like you (i got 52 won and 12 looses in battle room --> 81.25%). Not perfect, but I think this is a good way to play the No Hand style !

kilcosu · 14-01-2013 22:41:58

that's well and good if you prefer to take that risk, but here is my thought on it.
the risk of pulling [card]break the second chain[/card] does not out weigh the benefit of having it because it can ruin the entire strategy if you try playing [card]illumination[/card] and not get [card]cutting all ties[/card]

I only have 1 [card]illumination[/card] in my deck mostly because of [card]torment[/card]. if I made room for 2 more plus [card]break the second chain[/card] then that would be 7 cards in the deck that [card]torment[/card] can not use.

personally I don't need to reduce the opponents hand down to 0 in order to really be effective, with [card]hesitation[/card] and [card]final countdown[/card] the opponents strategy is already (more or less) broken to were they can't effectively beat my deck and I never expect them to survive past turn 5.

it's not perfect. but my win loss ratio is 64/13

Islen · 14-01-2013 23:55:08

This is an other way to play it, yes.

In the one hand, it can looks dangerous to get 7 cards in the deck that [card]Torment[/card] can't use. I agree.

But in the other hand, you are taking a risk too : you only have 7 cards with "a high no hand potential" : [card]Cutting all ties[/card]*3, [card]Fatal countdown[/card]*3 and [card]Illumination[/card].
So, at the beginning, if you dont get one of this card, you will probably be on trouble : without the hand control, all the others efficient decks will beat you.
Moreover, lots of efficient decks can survive a long time, even without many cards, so you sometimes/often need more than 3 [card]Cutting all ties[/card] and [card]Fatal countdown[/card].

Moreover, Torment never plays during the first turn. So, you can fit your hand to the situation : if you dont have [card]Fatal countdown[/card] and/or too much [card]Illumination[/card], you can discard. You can even discard a [card]Cutting all ties[/card] if you play [card]Break the second chain[/card].

Finally, this is just my opinion of course. There is different waves to play it obviously

P.S : it's a one in four chance of wasting [card]Break the second chain[/card] with [card]Illumination[/card] and it only happens when you don't have a [card]Cutting all ties[/card] in the discard area. So the risk is very tiny, for me it occured 1 times in 80+ games...

kilcosu · 15-01-2013 01:34:12

This is why I can never really call my deck a 100% hand deny deck because although [card]Cutting all ties[/card] is a key factor in it. it's not something that I base winning on. something can always go wrong where you don't draw the right card (like in [card]torment[/card]s fight) and the opponent goes back up to 4 or 5 cards depending on if [card]hesitation[/card] is in play (or using [card]hate[/card])

that's why I have combo's like [card]time to die[/card] - [card]one hit, one dead[/card] on [card]torment[/card]s turn bonus. or [card]utkin, nehant kid[/card] killing someone out of combat. (love it when that happens) because they can't play cards if there dead

but it is cool to see the subtle differences and play styles other people use

Dernière modification par kilcosu (15-01-2013 01:35:05)

Islen · 15-01-2013 16:48:02

I did some changes after a few games. [card]Illumination[/card] called [card]Break the second chain[/card] as first card 2 times in a row
So I tried with only 2 [card]Illuminate[/card], or without this damn Nehant chain. Finally, I stayed with 3 [card]Illuminate[/card] without the russian roulette second chain.

It looks good for the moment, much more reliable. I will see if I will lack of [card]Cutting all ties[/card] against some decks... or not.

So I'm playing :

No Hand tools :
- [card]Cutting all ties[/card]*3 obviously
- [card]Illuminate[/card]*3 to be sure to early get a [card]Cutting all ties[/card]
- [card]Fatal countdown[/card]*3
- [card]Hesitation[/card]*2 (because u can't stack 2 of this)

Actions :
- [card]Paranoia[/card]*3 probably the card I prefer <3
- [card]Dark fury[/card]*3 a must have in all no mage Nehant decks
- [card]One hit, one dead[/card]*1 to be more offensive with [card]Torment[/card]

Tool Box :
- [card]Maelstrom[/card]*1 because I always have a card to kill out of fight in every deck ; it's just a key card imo
- [card]Time to die[/card]*1 or [card]The secret of the crow[/card]*1 depend of decks I fight against (usually, I prefer [card]Time to die[/card])

I will maybe add [card]Dissidence[/card] too because I love this card. But I don't know what to change, and I dont want more cards in my deck (the more card you have, the more unreliable your deck becomes).

Dernière modification par Islen (15-01-2013 16:51:50)

iQuit · 15-01-2013 23:21:06

I don't use Dissidence , because it cannot chain so using it destroy all my hand-deny effort . I would use The secret of the crow instead

kilcosu · 15-01-2013 23:25:24

[card]Maelstrom[/card] is actually a pretty legit trophy card. I just looked it up and it is useful for more than just direct damage outside of combat. un-tapping your characters can give you more ways to get your order bonus. specifically [card]the shadow, lady of the nehant[/card], but [card]torment[/card]s would be nice too.

Islen · 16-01-2013 16:13:57

This is true, but you can find some better card to do the untap job (e.q [card]Agilité démoniaque[/card] - sorry, its the french version, I don't know the name of english/US version ^^).

And now, after some tests, I agree with you : with [card]Break the second chain[/card], the deck is just much unreliable (it's sad, because I loved the idea of playing [card]Cutting all ties[/card] 5 times in a game).

kilcosu · 17-01-2013 01:12:23

I put my [card]break the second chain[/card] where it belongs... my [card]demonic portal[/card] deck for farming

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 10-12-2012 18:13:42

marauder Hand deny deck

#2 10-12-2012 22:01:50

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#3 12-12-2012 09:38:22

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#4 12-12-2012 19:58:02

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#5 13-12-2012 05:06:19

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#6 27-12-2012 18:51:52

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#7 27-12-2012 21:12:01

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#8 27-12-2012 22:50:52

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#9 27-12-2012 23:13:46

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#10 28-12-2012 01:18:44

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#11 28-12-2012 02:00:46

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#12 14-01-2013 05:48:54

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#13 14-01-2013 22:41:58

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#14 14-01-2013 23:55:08

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#15 15-01-2013 01:34:12

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#16 15-01-2013 16:48:02

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#17 15-01-2013 23:21:06

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#18 15-01-2013 23:25:24

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#19 16-01-2013 16:13:57

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

#20 17-01-2013 01:12:23

Re : marauder Hand deny deck

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