Sapphon a écrit :
Cossette a écrit :
MTG 60 cards deck, 4 copies max - "Hymn to tourach" discard 2 cards from hand got banned because its to fasts.
Eredan 20 cards deck, 3 copies max - "Indigestion" discard 3 cards from hand O_o do the math...
Eredan isn't Magic ;p
My aim is for deck count not the game if you count the percentage of drawing "Indigestion" then add the other discarding cards it got 68% chances that opponents will loose 12-16 cards at third turn. leaving you with 8 or less cards, which means even you can one Hit KOs 2 circus characters you still loose the coming turn. unless you wont play any cards which is impossible

Kinda sad that you had to explain that. :eyeroll:

Sapphon · 22-03-2012 14:42:57

Cossette a écrit :

My aim is for deck count not the game if you count the percentage of drawing "Indigestion" then add the other discarding cards it got 68% chances that opponents will loose 12-16 cards at third turn. leaving you with 8 or less cards, which means even you can one Hit KOs 2 circus characters you still loose the coming turn. unless you wont play any cards which is impossible

And when I said Eredan isnt Magic, it was a way to say that discard in Eredan doesnt control your opponent as it does in Magic. If you discard all your opponent's hand in Eredan, he will draw 5 new cards the next turn (kinda like a wheel of fortune, heh). If you discard all your opponent's hand in Magic, you've locked him. That's why Tourach and Indigestion can't really be compared.

Kilanjared · 22-03-2012 14:48:24

What happens if they just eliminate loss by discard? That way, Circus has this massive advantage eliminating all enemy cards, but they would still have to actually beat the opponent's characters after they run out of cards. I think that would greatly level the playing field. Maybe just eliminate the ability to discard out in tourneys and not the other rooms?

What would people think?

Caitlyn · 22-03-2012 14:55:55

Kilanjared a écrit :

What happens if they just eliminate loss by discard? That way, Circus has this massive advantage eliminating all enemy cards, but they would still have to actually beat the opponent's characters after they run out of cards. I think that would greatly level the playing field. Maybe just eliminate the ability to discard out in tourneys and not the other rooms?
What would people think?

changing cards is one thing, changing the core dynamic of how to play/win a game is too much of a sell out in my opinion, even if it is just one room. a win condition in one room should apply on all rooms or not at all.

Ryken · 22-03-2012 15:05:54

Sapphon a écrit :

Cossette a écrit :
My aim is for deck count not the game if you count the percentage of drawing "Indigestion" then add the other discarding cards it got 68% chances that opponents will loose 12-16 cards at third turn. leaving you with 8 or less cards, which means even you can one Hit KOs 2 circus characters you still loose the coming turn. unless you wont play any cards which is impossible
And when I said Eredan isnt Magic, it was a way to say that discard in Eredan doesnt control your opponent as it does in Magic. If you discard all your opponent's hand in Eredan, he will draw 5 new cards the next turn (kinda like a wheel of fortune, heh). If you discard all your opponent's hand in Magic, you've locked him. That's why Tourach and Indigestion can't really be compared.

But if it only take you 2-3 turns to mill him down to their final cards, you've done more then "locked" him; you've won. Easily, in fact, with little effort.

Wanderson Farias · 22-03-2012 15:14:28

Kilanjared a écrit :

What happens if they just eliminate loss by discard? That way, Circus has this massive advantage eliminating all enemy cards, but they would still have to actually beat the opponent's characters after they run out of cards. I think that would greatly level the playing field. Maybe just eliminate the ability to discard out in tourneys and not the other rooms?
What would people think?

The day this happens, if I'm allowed to dream, Eredan will be a great game.

Cossette · 22-03-2012 15:17:42

Sapphon a écrit :

Cossette a écrit :
My aim is for deck count not the game if you count the percentage of drawing "Indigestion" then add the other discarding cards it got 68% chances that opponents will loose 12-16 cards at third turn. leaving you with 8 or less cards, which means even you can one Hit KOs 2 circus characters you still loose the coming turn. unless you wont play any cards which is impossible
And when I said Eredan isnt Magic, it was a way to say that discard in Eredan doesnt control your opponent as it does in Magic. If you discard all your opponent's hand in Eredan, he will draw 5 new cards the next turn (kinda like a wheel of fortune, heh). If you discard all your opponent's hand in Magic, you've locked him. That's why Tourach and Indigestion can't really be compared.

You explained your point, I explained my point so what are you going to do with the card? it is nice to make everything speed up 3 turn win kill for circus and it will totally forget Tempus turn 22 turn in the third round overkill. what will happen next? im sure other decks/guilds have nothing left to do wait and lose? or your planning to give away free "A New Start" for everyone?
I'm not complaining even my older post i stay neutral balancing everything out, but seeing the updates makes me sad.

Dernière modification par Cossette (22-03-2012 15:23:39)

magius · 22-03-2012 15:22:59

Sapphon a écrit :

Cossette a écrit :
My aim is for deck count not the game if you count the percentage of drawing "Indigestion" then add the other discarding cards it got 68% chances that opponents will loose 12-16 cards at third turn. leaving you with 8 or less cards, which means even you can one Hit KOs 2 circus characters you still loose the coming turn. unless you wont play any cards which is impossible
And when I said Eredan isnt Magic, it was a way to say that discard in Eredan doesnt control your opponent as it does in Magic. If you discard all your opponent's hand in Eredan, he will draw 5 new cards the next turn (kinda like a wheel of fortune, heh). If you discard all your opponent's hand in Magic, you've locked him. That's why Tourach and Indigestion can't really be compared.

I think they are both the same??? Tourach will discard 2 cards randomly from Hand but the opponent will draw back up to 7 cards the next turn. Similar to Indigestion, discard 3 cards from hard and draw back up to 5 next turn. But the ratio of power is different here as mentioned by Cossette.

Indigestion: Discard 3 out of 5 cards in hand for a 20 card deck (essentially 20 life points for player)

Hymn: Discard 2 out of 7 cards in hand for a 60 card deck (essentially 60 life points for player).

Indigestion >>>>>>>>>>> Hymn by a far margin!

Dernière modification par magius (22-03-2012 15:25:36)

Cossette · 22-03-2012 15:27:40

magius a écrit :

I think they are both the same??? Tourach will discard 2 cards randomly from Hand but the opponent will draw back up to 7 cards the next turn. Similar to Indigestion, discard 3 cards from hard and draw back up to 5 next turn. But the ratio of power is different here as mentioned by Cossette.

I'm sorry but MTG are only allowed to draw 1 card per turn. so hymn are complete lock down.

but still 20 cards deck against "indigestion" got great effect

Dernière modification par Cossette (22-03-2012 15:31:56)

xesicyra · 22-03-2012 15:28:32

Sapphon a écrit :

...If you discard all your opponent's hand in Eredan, he will draw 5 new cards the next turn (kinda like a wheel of fortune, heh)...

I'm having trouble seeing it as a wheel of fortune... previously discard decks were a threat and actually felt challenging to go against. Now it feels just a little too overwhelming.

Feels like i'll need a anti-shadow item of some sort to even stand a chance. Or the famous ANS.

Because having Arachnophobia, rain dance, sanctuary of woods or even moneyed in every deck feels very limiting.

Sapphon · 22-03-2012 15:30:15

Ryken a écrit :

But if it only take you 2-3 turns to mill him down to their final cards, you've done more then "locked" him; you've won. Easily, in fact, with little effort.

Not if you can play a New Start (Yeah, I know, you have to get it). Rain dances are great too (I'm doing them ^^)

Cossette a écrit :

or your planning to give away free "A New Start" for everyone?

Dont know if it would help that much. Nah, there are plans, and I cant talk about them. But, yeah, it would have been nice if these plans where to be released before the cards ;p

magius a écrit :

Indigestion: Discard 3 out of 5 cards in hand for a 20 card deck (essentially 20 life points for player)
Hymn: Discard 2 out of 7 cards in hand for a 60 card deck (essentially 60 life points for player).
Indigestion >>>>>>>>>>> Hymn by a far margin!

Like Cossette said, in Eredan when you're down to 0 cards, you draw your full hand. Ok, it will help you to meet your end faster, but it will cycle your deck too, and allow you to get cards that will reshuffle your graveyard in your library (haha !).
In Magic, once you're down to 0 cards, you draw only one card. You're then locked.

Tourach and Indigestion don't serve the same purpose : in magic, discard is a lock deck, but you will need something else to win. In Eredan, it's not really a lock (you can still play). In fact, discard decks in Eredan are more Magic Millstone decks than Magic Discard decks.

al_vh1n · 22-03-2012 16:33:43

Caitlyn a écrit :

Kilanjared a écrit :
What happens if they just eliminate loss by discard? That way, Circus has this massive advantage eliminating all enemy cards, but they would still have to actually beat the opponent's characters after they run out of cards. I think that would greatly level the playing field. Maybe just eliminate the ability to discard out in tourneys and not the other rooms?
What would people think?
changing cards is one thing, changing the core dynamic of how to play/win a game is too much of a sell out in my opinion, even if it is just one room. a win condition in one room should apply on all rooms or not at all.

We don't need to change the game mechanics for discard. We just need a good counter for them w/c doesn't cost an arm or a leg. Maybe a card w/ this kind of effect:

Unique

As long as this card is attached to one of your character, you cannot lose by deck out. 5 turns

Permanent.

This will not render discard deck unusable since it will only last for 5 turns meaning you have to kill all opposing characters in that given turn.

Sapphon · 22-03-2012 16:41:33

I'm not really fond of cards that counters only one deck. I think a better way to counter discard without changing the core of the game would be to make a New Start like card that isn't a Legendary card. Something like "reshuffle X cards of your graveyard into your library. Your char loses X/2 life."

Limestone · 22-03-2012 16:49:54

Sapphon a écrit :

I'm not really fond of cards that counters only one deck. I think a better way to counter discard without changing the core of the game would be to make a New Start like card that isn't a Legendary card. Something like "reshuffle X cards of your graveyard into your library. Your char loses X/2 life."

Anam and Alyce already counter it easily and also being a mockery of the real stuff. I approved al_vh1n brilliant idea no comment there

Ryken · 22-03-2012 16:59:02

Sapphon a écrit :

Ryken a écrit :
But if it only take you 2-3 turns to mill him down to their final cards, you've done more then "locked" him; you've won. Easily, in fact, with little effort.
Not if you can play a New Start (Yeah, I know, you have to get it). Rain dances are great too (I'm doing them ^^)

That has never been, nor will it ever be, a good solution. A card that costs damn near 900k?

How about making a COMMON card with a similar effect? Something not retarded, like how Moneyed is. That way there's a viable way to combat discard.

Or, you know, NOT RELEASE BROKEN CARDS. While I'm not blaming YOU, Sapphon, it really doesn't take a genius (or even a monkey with down syndrome) to see how busted this is gonna get. The MAIN reason I even came back to plaything this game was because discard was ramping down and were getting easier to deal with. Now? Looks like it's adios unless I'm trying to obtain trophies.

Good riddance, I say.

Dernière modification par Ryken (22-03-2012 16:59:24)

Cossette · 22-03-2012 16:59:56

i don't know if this is the right place to suggests, but why not make indigestion, just two cards instead of three, or all discard cards cant be chained like(AOE) or make it limited usage. its just one guild(circus) but the card got great impact on other themes deck.

Dernière modification par Cossette (22-03-2012 17:05:40)

al_vh1n · 22-03-2012 17:00:01

Sapphon a écrit :

I'm not really fond of cards that counters only one deck. I think a better way to counter discard without changing the core of the game would be to make a New Start like card that isn't a Legendary card. Something like "reshuffle X cards of your graveyard into your library. Your char loses X/2 life."

Since everybody seems to be very fond of discard atm especially in elo I would like to take my chances on a card even if it can only counter one specific deck.

Sapphon · 22-03-2012 17:06:39

You know, discard is played because it's the "easy win deck of the moment". But there are plans in motion, plans that include strange angles, bad dogs, stars and tentacles. When the stars will have the right alignement, you will understand why your idea isnt that great ;p

Cossette a écrit :

i don't know if this is the right place to suggests, but why not make indigestion it just two cards instead of three, or all discard cards cant be chained like(AOE) or make its limited usage. its just one guild(circus) but the card got great impact on other themes deck.

It's a possibility. I'll talk about it to the guy with the tissue on the head.

magius · 22-03-2012 17:17:57

Sapphon a écrit :

You know, discard is played because it's the "easy win deck of the moment". But there are plans in motion, plans that include strange angles, bad dogs, stars and tentacles. When the stars will have the right alignement, you will understand why your idea isnt that great ;p
Cossette a écrit :
i don't know if this is the right place to suggests, but why not make indigestion it just two cards instead of three, or all discard cards cant be chained like(AOE) or make its limited usage. its just one guild(circus) but the card got great impact on other themes deck.
It's a possibility. I'll talk about it to the guy with the tissue on the head.

Since [card]Panic[/card] is incremental discard to 3 cards, why not Indigestion discard 1-3 cards from hand (just like [card]Theft[/card]). There is an element of uncertainty and certainly not overpowered. Even Treacherous only ramp up by opposing Spirit score hence balancing its power.

Sapphon · 22-03-2012 17:23:57

Random is evil.

Limestone · 22-03-2012 17:26:58

Sapphon a écrit :

Random is evil.

So is certainty

al_vh1n · 22-03-2012 17:32:16

Sapphon a écrit :

Cossette a écrit :
i don't know if this is the right place to suggests, but why not make indigestion it just two cards instead of three, or all discard cards cant be chained like(AOE) or make its limited usage. its just one guild(circus) but the card got great impact on other themes deck.
It's a possibility. I'll talk about it to the guy with the tissue on the head.

Or maybe instead of nerfing/changing the cards, maybe you can tell the guy w/ the tissue on the head to playtest first the cards before they release it to the public. Nerfing should be done as a last resort only and not as a way to solve a problem when things go out in hand w/c can be easily avoided w/ just a simple playtesting.

FutureMesca · 22-03-2012 17:54:59

Don't go nerf the card now that I already bought 3 of them damn it. Hate when you do that.

Besides, there are a lot of ways to counter discard decks, even with [card]Indigestion[/card] as it is such as [card]A new start[/card], [card]Time Mix[/card], Graveyard manipulation decks, [card]S.A.R.A.H[/card], [card]Arkalon[/card], [card]The Rain Dance[/card], etc etc

Sapphon · 22-03-2012 18:09:53

al_vh1n a écrit :

Or maybe instead of nerfing/changing the cards, maybe you can tell the guy w/ the tissue on the head to playtest first the cards before they release it to the public. Nerfing should be done as a last resort only and not as a way to solve a problem when things go out in hand w/c can be easily avoided w/ just a simple playtesting.

"Just a simple playtesting" isnt that easy ;p
Cards are playtested. But sometimes you don't think of everything. In this case the card came in a bit too early I think, since most top decks cant be played at full power in ELO.

Ryken · 22-03-2012 18:14:56

Sapphon a écrit :

al_vh1n a écrit :
Or maybe instead of nerfing/changing the cards, maybe you can tell the guy w/ the tissue on the head to playtest first the cards before they release it to the public. Nerfing should be done as a last resort only and not as a way to solve a problem when things go out in hand w/c can be easily avoided w/ just a simple playtesting.
"Just a simple playtesting" isnt that easy ;p
Cards are playtested. But sometimes you don't think of everything. In this case the card came in a bit too early I think, since most top decks cant be played at full power in ELO.

I'm sorry, what? Telling your opponent to DISCARD THREE CARDS wasn't a hint enough in itself to tell you that MAYBE the card was a tad broken?

*grumbles*

Eredan's World

Annonce

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