I have no sap hearth but here littel idea for the deck.
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/mBBsulXj.png
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/fKfmWz2o.png
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/LYAuIOO2.png
3 x [card]Hypnotic melody[/card]
3 x [card]Quick Draw[/card]
2 x [card]Hibernation[/card]
2 x [card]Precision Shot[/card]
3 x [card]Hit for Hit[/card]
3 x [card]brutality[/card]
3 x [card]Ivory Bow[/card]
1 x [card]Elfine Bow[/card]

It looks like a very nice deck. Thank you. I have three questions:

1. How would this deck fare against ... something like Kotoba trio (Iro, Asahjiro, Gakyusha)? Even with Hypnotic Melody, wouldn't most of attacks bounce off, thus rendering the secondary & tertiary attacks (from Quickdraw) ineffective against high armored targets?

2. Does Sap Heart have any cards that can 'reset' the defense of their targets to zero?

3. I am curious nevertheless how such a deck would fare against other players in ELO events. I have no intention of competing for ranking but I am curious nevertheless. As of now, I can't even afford a single Ivory Bow, much less a complete Sap Heart deck.

farmer2220 · 25-12-2011 21:35:57

Lemant a écrit :

Sereaphim a écrit :
I have no sap hearth but here littel idea for the deck.
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/mBBsulXj.png
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/fKfmWz2o.png
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/LYAuIOO2.png
3 x [card]Hypnotic melody[/card]
3 x [card]Quick Draw[/card]
2 x [card]Hibernation[/card]
2 x [card]Precision Shot[/card]
3 x [card]Hit for Hit[/card]
3 x [card]brutality[/card]
3 x [card]Ivory Bow[/card]
1 x [card]Elfine Bow[/card]

It looks like a very nice deck. Thank you. I have three questions:
1. How would this deck fare against ... something like Kotoba trio (Iro, Asahjiro, Gakyusha)? Even with Hypnotic Melody, wouldn't most of attacks bounce off, thus rendering the secondary & tertiary attacks (from Quickdraw) ineffective against high armored targets?
2. Does Sap Heart have any cards that can 'reset' the defense of their targets to zero?
3. I am curious nevertheless how such a deck would fare against other players in ELO events. I have no intention of competing for ranking but I am curious nevertheless. As of now, I can't even afford a single Ivory Bow, much less a complete Sap Heart deck.

distracted puts to 0 but its a turn to slow

jackal19 · 26-12-2011 06:21:17

farmer2220 a écrit :

Lemant a écrit :
Sereaphim a écrit :
I have no sap hearth but here littel idea for the deck.
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/mBBsulXj.png
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/fKfmWz2o.png
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/LYAuIOO2.png
3 x [card]Hypnotic melody[/card]
3 x [card]Quick Draw[/card]
2 x [card]Hibernation[/card]
2 x [card]Precision Shot[/card]
3 x [card]Hit for Hit[/card]
3 x [card]brutality[/card]
3 x [card]Ivory Bow[/card]
1 x [card]Elfine Bow[/card]

It looks like a very nice deck. Thank you. I have three questions:
1. How would this deck fare against ... something like Kotoba trio (Iro, Asahjiro, Gakyusha)? Even with Hypnotic Melody, wouldn't most of attacks bounce off, thus rendering the secondary & tertiary attacks (from Quickdraw) ineffective against high armored targets?
2. Does Sap Heart have any cards that can 'reset' the defense of their targets to zero?
3. I am curious nevertheless how such a deck would fare against other players in ELO events. I have no intention of competing for ranking but I am curious nevertheless. As of now, I can't even afford a single Ivory Bow, much less a complete Sap Heart deck.
distracted puts to 0 but its a turn to slow

but it will work like a charm if you survive the turn that is

Lemant · 26-12-2011 07:25:55

Sereaphim a écrit :

I have no sap hearth but here littel idea for the deck.
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/mBBsulXj.png
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/fKfmWz2o.png
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/LYAuIOO2.png
3 x [card]Hypnotic melody[/card]
3 x [card]Quick Draw[/card]
2 x [card]Hibernation[/card]
2 x [card]Precision Shot[/card]
3 x [card]Hit for Hit[/card]
3 x [card]brutality[/card]
3 x [card]Ivory Bow[/card]
1 x [card]Elfine Bow[/card]

Two additional questions, in addition to the unanswered questions in post #7:

1. In the 'sample' deck generated by Sereaphim, there are three Ivory Bows, one per character. All bows are two-handed weapons. What is the purpose of the 4th bow, the [card]Elfine Bow[/card]?

2. If I were to include [card]Distracted[/card] (x3) into this deck, which three cards should they replace?

PatrikÅkervinda · 26-12-2011 10:29:22

[card]Distracted[/card] seems like a solid choice. I've met decks similar to this that ran that card.

I'd cut [card]Brutality[/card]. The deck is a bit of a glass cannon. You don't need cards that play on your weaknesses. Plus it's the same kind of cardslot as [card]Distracted[/card].

I'd include [card]The Grand Hunt[/card] since it's a card you probably have and it works well. Cheap is good.

Cut the forth bow if it makes you happy. It's there to help your glasscannons survive another round, I suppose. And two of your characters chain it.

Lemant · 26-12-2011 11:25:31

PatrikÅkervinda a écrit :

[card]Distracted[/card] seems like a solid choice. I've met decks similar to this that ran that card.
I'd cut [card]Brutality[/card]. The deck is a bit of a glass cannon. You don't need cards that play on your weaknesses. Plus it's the same kind of cardslot as [card]Distracted[/card].
I'd include [card]The Grand Hunt[/card] since it's a card you probably have and it works well. Cheap is good.
Cut the forth bow if it makes you happy. It's there to help your glasscannons survive another round, I suppose. And two of your characters chain it.

Thank you for the sound advice, Patrik. After much consideration, I came to the same conclusion. The three-cards slot would be better reserved for [card]Distracted[/card] than [card]Brutality[/card].

The issue about the 4th bow still remains. When your deck consists of low attack-powered characters such as Elfines, would it not be better to focus all of the attacks on a single foe rather than diluting it on multiple targets? I thought the survival/victory depends on attribution, how quickly one can reduce the number of opponents. Furthermore, nobody has clearly stated the purpose of [card]Elfine Bow[/card] when all three of the characters already have [card]Ivory Bow[/card] equipped. To my knowledge, bows cannot be dual-wielded due to the two-handed nature of the weapon. Thus, if a character who is already equipped with an [card]Ivory Bow[/card] were to try to equip an [card]Elfine Bow[/card], what would be the result? Would the equipped [card]Ivory Bow[/card] be simply discarded?

PatrikÅkervinda · 26-12-2011 12:25:54

Yes, the [card]Ivory Bow[/card] would be discarded if you dropped an [card]Ivory Bow[/card] as a second weapon.

Yeah, I'd throw the forth bow out of the window if it were my choice. I agree with your observations of the deck. But, I'm not that familiar with the meta game. It could be a tech-card for all I know.

[card]Strength of the Sap Hearts[/card] Might be a good card. It's free.

Since you've tried the deck I have a question for you. Do you run 2 [card]Hibernation[/card]? If so, is 2 the best amount? I'm just curious since I feel that it's one of the best card for increasing the survivability of the characters in this deck.

Sereaphim · 26-12-2011 12:30:58

Lemant a écrit :

PatrikÅkervinda a écrit :
[card]Distracted[/card] seems like a solid choice. I've met decks similar to this that ran that card.
I'd cut [card]Brutality[/card]. The deck is a bit of a glass cannon. You don't need cards that play on your weaknesses. Plus it's the same kind of cardslot as [card]Distracted[/card].
I'd include [card]The Grand Hunt[/card] since it's a card you probably have and it works well. Cheap is good.
Cut the forth bow if it makes you happy. It's there to help your glasscannons survive another round, I suppose. And two of your characters chain it.

Thank you for the sound advice, Patrik. After much consideration, I came to the same conclusion. The three-cards slot would be better reserved for [card]Distracted[/card] than [card]Brutality[/card].
The issue about the 4th bow still remains. When your deck consists of low attack-powered characters such as Elfines, would it not be better to focus all of the attacks on a single foe rather than diluting it on multiple targets? I thought the survival/victory depends on attribution, how quickly one can reduce the number of opponents. Furthermore, nobody has clearly stated the purpose of [card]Elfine Bow[/card] when all three of the characters already have [card]Ivory Bow[/card] equipped. To my knowledge, bows cannot be dual-wielded due to the two-handed nature of the weapon. Thus, if a character who is already equipped with an [card]Ivory Bow[/card] were to try to equip an [card]Elfine Bow[/card], what would be the result? Would the equipped [card]Ivory Bow[/card] be simply discarded?

I think [card]Distracted[/card] is to slow and against most decks useless.
Not all play kotoba warrior decks .....
But play what you like I only postet this deck to inspire you and not more.

The point of [card]Elfine Bow[/card] is that it is like silver bullet.
You can kill enemy that is by 1 to 5 life with [card]Elfine Bow[/card] + [card]Quick Draw[/card] and win the game.
His armor and his effecte is then uninteresting.
In the end its like a [card]Unleash hell[/card] or other aoe.

Littel example:
You play a game vs [card]Aelide, Queen of avalonia[/card] deck.
You start the game and atack her first.
She doesn't die because of her heal.
Second turn the enemy atack with [card]Jorus[/card] and play the combo [card]Multitasking[/card] + [card]good jorusien[/card].

You will now lose the game if you have not a [card]Elfine Bow[/card] in your deck.
[card]Aelide, Queen of avalonia[/card] will get now 2 lesser damage and heal herself every turn for 4 hp or more.

In other words unkillable for a Quick draw deck
But if you atack one of the other charakter with [card]Elfine Bow[/card] she will get full damage and not heal herself this turn.

Dernière modification par Sereaphim (26-12-2011 14:58:43)

PatrikÅkervinda · 26-12-2011 12:56:36

[card]Distracted[/card] is a situational card, no doubt about it. But how does it fare in the current meta? I don't think it's useless against most decks. A meager 4 in defense is pretty much enough to hamper this deck severely. We have a lot of deck archetypes that have more then 4 in def.

My beaf with [card]Brutality[/card] is that you drop your own low def by two for a chance at 3 to 4 damage to the opponent. Situational as well.

I'm just expressing my thoughts here. I've never played this deck and I'm fairly new to the game and not very well versed in the meta.

Edit: Ah, [card]Elfine Bow[/card] was a tech-card after all! Thanks for explaining.

Dernière modification par PatrikÅkervinda (26-12-2011 13:09:11)

Lemant · 26-12-2011 14:22:18

PatrikÅkervinda a écrit :

[card]Strength of the Sap Hearts[/card] Might be a good card. It's free.
Since you've tried the deck I have a question for you. Do you run 2 [card]Hibernation[/card]? If so, is 2 the best amount? I'm just curious since I feel that it's one of the best card for increasing the survivability of the characters in this deck.

You presume much. I have no Sap Heart deck. All I did was run a mental simulation of how such deck would perform against something like .... Kotaba Trackers. For this reason, I cannot comment about the ideal number of [card]Hibernation[/card] cards in the aforementioned deck until I understand more about the Sap Heart. Once I do, then and only then will I be able to decide whether to put priority into more offense or defense. After all, additional defense would be useless if the defense-fortified deck cannot survive round two (turns 4-6).

Dernière modification par Lemant (26-12-2011 14:26:08)

Lemant · 26-12-2011 15:05:05

Sereaphim a écrit :

I think [card]Distracted[/card] is to slow and against most decks useless.
Not all play kotoba warrior decks .....
But play what you like I only postet this deck to inspire you and not more.
The point of [card]Elfine Bow[/card] is that it is like silver bullet.
You can kill enemy that is by 1 to 5 life with [card]Elfine Bow[/card] + [card]Quick Draw[/card] and win the game.
His armor and his effecte is then uninteresting.
In the end its like a [card]Unleash hell[/card] or other aoe.
Littel example:
You play a game vs [card]Aelide, Queen of avalonia[/card] deck.
You start the game and atack her first.
She doesn't die because of her heal.
Second turn he atack with [card]Jorus[/card] and play the combo [card]Multitasking[/card] + [card]good jorusien[/card].
You will now lose the game if you have not a [card]Elfine Bow[/card] in your deck.
She will get now 2 lesser damage and heal herself every turn for 4 hp or more.
In other words unkillable for a Quick draw deck
But if you atack one of the other charakter with [card]Elfine Bow[/card] she will get full damage and not heal herself this turn.

Thank you for the input, Sereaphim. But I am still puzzled. The problem is that I do not understand the damage mechanics of an [card]Elfine Bow[/card]. According to the description of the card, the damage is "spread amongst all the opposing characters at the end of the fight." Assuming there are three opposing characters, wouldn't the attack power of the [card]Elfine Bow[/card] be reduced to one-third per character? And that 1/3 power must still overcome the individual target's defense to be able to deliver any damage. (Here I assume [card]Distracted[/card] is NOT in play.) Since Elfine Bow itself lacks any innate Att/Dmg boost. the resulting attack power of the bow must come from the wielder of the weapon, in this case, the Elfine characters whose attack powers are .... pathetic at best. Even with Precision Shot in play, I have doubts whether the resulting 1/3 of attack power is sufficient to overcome the target's defense.

Here's an explicit example.

Melissandre is now wielding an [card]Elfine Bow[/card] to target all three opposing characters. Defense of each opposing characters: 6.
With [card]Hypnotic Melody[/card] in play, target's effective defense: 3.
Melissandre attacks. Her Att roll: 6.
With [card]Precision Shot[/card] in play, effective Att = 6+ 4 = 10.
10/3 = 3.3 = 3 rounded down.
Damage inflicted on a target: 3 (from the bow) - 3 (target's Defense) = 0.

As you can see, the target receives no damage.

If you (or anyone) can help me understand the mechanics/advantages of Sereaphim's sample deck, it'd be greatly appreciated. I wish I had the luxury of owning a Sap Heart deck to test them out for myself so I can stop asking all these pesky questions but the deck in question is NOT CHEAP to acquire. Heck, I don't even have enough crystals to buy an Ivory Bow, much less an entire deck.

Sereaphim · 26-12-2011 15:17:57

Lemant a écrit :

Sereaphim a écrit :
I think [card]Distracted[/card] is to slow and against most decks useless.
Not all play kotoba warrior decks .....
But play what you like I only postet this deck to inspire you and not more.
The point of [card]Elfine Bow[/card] is that it is like silver bullet.
You can kill enemy that is by 1 to 5 life with [card]Elfine Bow[/card] + [card]Quick Draw[/card] and win the game.
His armor and his effecte is then uninteresting.
In the end its like a [card]Unleash hell[/card] or other aoe.
Littel example:
You play a game vs [card]Aelide, Queen of avalonia[/card] deck.
You start the game and atack her first.
She doesn't die because of her heal.
Second turn he atack with [card]Jorus[/card] and play the combo [card]Multitasking[/card] + [card]good jorusien[/card].
You will now lose the game if you have not a [card]Elfine Bow[/card] in your deck.
She will get now 2 lesser damage and heal herself every turn for 4 hp or more.
In other words unkillable for a Quick draw deck
But if you atack one of the other charakter with [card]Elfine Bow[/card] she will get full damage and not heal herself this turn.
Thank you for the input, Sereaphim. But I am still puzzled. The problem is that I do not understand the damage mechanics of an [card]Elfine Bow[/card]. According to the description of the card, the damage is "spread amongst all the opposing characters at the end of the fight." Assuming there are three opposing characters, wouldn't the attack power of the [card]Elfine Bow[/card] be reduced to one-third per character? And that 1/3 power must still overcome the individual target's defense to be able to deliver any damage. (Here I assume [card]Distracted[/card] is NOT in play.) Since Elfine Bow itself lacks any innate Att/Dmg boost. the resulting attack power of the bow must come from the wielder of the weapon, in this case, the Elfine characters whose attack powers are .... pathetic at best. Even with Precision Shot in play, I have doubts whether the resulting 1/3 of attack power is sufficient to overcome the target's defense.
Here's an explicit example.
Melissandre is now wielding an [card]Elfine Bow[/card] to target all three opposing characters. Defense of each opposing characters: 6.
With [card]Hypnotic Melody[/card] in play, target's effective defense: 3.
Melissandre attacks. Her Att roll: 6.
With [card]Precision Shot[/card] in play, effective Att = 6+ 4 = 10.
10/3 = 3.3 = 3 rounded down.
Damage inflicted on a target: 3 (from the bow) - 3 (target's Defense) = 0.
As you can see, the target receives no damage.
If you (or anyone) can help me understand the mechanics/advantages of Sereaphim's sample deck, it'd be greatly appreciated. I wish I had the luxury of owning a Sap Heart deck to test them out for myself so I can stop asking all these pesky questions but the deck in question is NOT CHEAP to acquire. Heck, I don't even have enough crystals to buy an Ivory Bow, much less an entire deck.

You misunderstand the effect of [card]Elfine Bow[/card].
The "spreading" is not reduce by armor or other effects.
If you play with [card]chestnut[/card] [card]Elfine Bow[/card] + [card] Quick Draw [/card] versus someon with 2 defence say you deal 6 + 3 + 3 = 12.
And this 12 damage is divded by 3 charakter everybody get 4 damage.
This 4 damage get not reduced by armor or other effect it is pure damage.

Dernière modification par Sereaphim (26-12-2011 15:19:48)

Lemant · 26-12-2011 15:25:40

Sereaphim a écrit :

You misunderstand the effect of [card]Elfine Bow[/card].
The "spreading" is not reduce by armor or other effects.
If you play with [card]chestnut[/card] [card]Elfine Bow[/card] + [card] Quick Draw [/card] versus someon with 2 defence say you deal 6 + 3 + 3 = 12.
And this 12 damage is divded by 3 charakter everybody get 4 damage.
This 4 damage get not reduced by armor or other effect it is pure damage.

Wow. I had no idea Elfine Bow deals DIRECT DAMAGE. Do all bows deliver direct damage or is it particular only to [card]Elfine Bow[/card]?

Nevermind. It appears that direct damage comes from the spreading effect. So the answer to my question is "No" since no other bows offer the spreading effect.

Dernière modification par Lemant (26-12-2011 15:27:55)

Sereaphim · 26-12-2011 15:30:46

Lemant a écrit :

Sereaphim a écrit :
You misunderstand the effect of [card]Elfine Bow[/card].
The "spreading" is not reduce by armor or other effects.
If you play with [card]chestnut[/card] [card]Elfine Bow[/card] + [card] Quick Draw [/card] versus someon with 2 defence say you deal 6 + 3 + 3 = 12.
And this 12 damage is divded by 3 charakter everybody get 4 damage.
This 4 damage get not reduced by armor or other effect it is pure damage.
Wow. I had no idea Elfine Bow deals DIRECT DAMAGE. Do all bows deliver direct damage or is it particular only to [card]Elfine Bow[/card]?

Only the "spread effect" after the atack is pure damage.
It is for all effect that spread damage same goes for [card]Weapon Kata[/card] or [card]Jian Qiao[/card].

Dernière modification par Sereaphim (26-12-2011 15:33:08)

Lemant · 26-12-2011 15:32:37

Ugh...yet more questions. Seriously, if I had $10,000 for each Eredan-related question, I'd be richer than Donald Trump.

Question: With the newly gained knowledge about the spreading effect of the Elfine Bow in mind, is it still advisable to include [card]Ivory Bow[/card](x3) into the Sap Heart warriors deck? Wouldn't it be more effective for me to just employ Elfine Bows and Amber Dagger instead?

Sereaphim · 26-12-2011 15:38:27

Lemant a écrit :

Ugh...yet more questions. Seriously, if I had $10,000 for each Eredan-related question, I'd be richer than Donald Trump.
Question: With the newly gained knowledge about the spreading effect of the Elfine Bow in mind, is it still advisable to include [card]Ivory Bow[/card](x3) into the Sap Heart warriors deck? Wouldn't it be more effective for me to just employ Elfine Bows and Amber Dagger instead?

[card]Elfine Bow[/card] only spread your damage but not increase your damage.
(disregarding from the 1 atack it give)
And if you play [card]Amber Dagger[/card] your weapon that you carry get discarded if it has not dual wild.
[card]Ivory Bow[/card] give you - 2 atack but generate a [card]magic poison[/card] that deal up to 5 damage per turn.

A other good option to add weapons and equip and play in the end [card]Items have a Soul[/card] as alternate win option.

Dernière modification par Sereaphim (26-12-2011 15:46:05)

Lemant · 26-12-2011 15:47:09

Q1: Does "printed Min Attack" refer to BEFORE or AFTER damage-boosted modifications? (I am guessing BEFORE, otherwise, it would seem too powerful...)

Q2: In the upgraded version of Elfine Bow:

does the +1 Attack bonus also apply to secondary attacks as well?

Dernière modification par Lemant (26-12-2011 15:50:15)

Sereaphim · 26-12-2011 15:49:34

Lemant a écrit :

Q1: Does "printed Min Attack" refer to BEFORE or AFTER damage-boosted modifications? (I am guessing BEFORE, otherwise, it would seem too powerful...)
Q2: In the upgraded version of Elfine Bow:
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/P5HKMTiy.png
does the +1 Attack bonus also apply to secondary attacks as well?

Q1:
Only BEFORE boosted modifications.
Melissandre deals a 6/6 atack as second strike.
Ydiane and Chestnute deal a 5/5 atack as second strike.

Q2:
Only for the first one.

Dernière modification par Sereaphim (26-12-2011 15:55:38)

Lemant · 26-12-2011 15:51:00

Thank you, Sereaphim! You've been immensely helpful!

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 25-12-2011 08:02:57

Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#2 25-12-2011 16:14:04

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#3 25-12-2011 16:18:30

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#4 25-12-2011 16:19:23

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#5 25-12-2011 17:27:30

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#6 25-12-2011 20:47:47

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#7 25-12-2011 21:06:40

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#8 25-12-2011 21:35:57

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#9 26-12-2011 06:21:17

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#10 26-12-2011 07:25:55

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#11 26-12-2011 10:29:22

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#12 26-12-2011 11:25:31

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#13 26-12-2011 12:25:54

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#14 26-12-2011 12:30:58

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#15 26-12-2011 12:56:36

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#16 26-12-2011 14:22:18

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#17 26-12-2011 15:05:05

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#18 26-12-2011 15:17:57

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#19 26-12-2011 15:25:40

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#20 26-12-2011 15:30:46

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#21 26-12-2011 15:32:37

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#22 26-12-2011 15:38:27

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#23 26-12-2011 15:47:09

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#24 26-12-2011 15:49:34

Re : Building a Sap Heart Deck Around Ivory Bow

#25 26-12-2011 15:51:00

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