hmmm someone deleted posts here... if u read the thread it lacks lots of content to follow the 'discussion' which somehow developed into a flaming fight...
it is no use to rage around and shout at others or give them names because everybody has his or her own opinion and indeed has a voice no matter whether he is a paying player or not... if u are not fine with a change you should be allowed to give feedback but it should also be appropriate and respect others and their opinions
the changes affect me just a little because i only have a few of the changed cards myself and they are no core cards to any deck i play atm but i m looking forward to finally being able to fight the avatar on a face to face level... the sap changes were also required in my point of view... keizan and living nature in combination with brother in arms was... an avalanche...
i m happy that finally feerik realized that changing these cards was more urgent then maintaining the rule to never change any old card.
@soulst3al3r
i also used my assasination to level kararine and i got super angry at doing so when the 'who killed ishaia' event was up... it needed the card to get a certain hint and thus being able to finish the quest properly... sometimes decisions u make are proving to be... um... less fortunate then what u expected them to be... like u decided to play a certain deck which was as soon as it's card were published taking its place among the highest tiers...
the thing is that you are pissed now because ure favorite deck got the full attention of the devs changes and it will decrease its winning rate from 95% down to maybe 60%... but u will get a refund! and maybe it will be enough to get you the chains u need to fill in the gaps and still keep on playing a really competive deck without being simply imba
eat the sour apple now... u dont have to like it much but the taste will go away and u will once realize that these things were needed to maintain deck variety

Thx for putting it into perspective. Additionally, I agree with most of what u said. I suppose I should just be happy that sap hearts are at least affected by these changes as well. What do you think of the chances that zil marauders get nerfed a little bit too?

Caitlyn · 13-12-2011 03:42:21

i dont get the mage changes.. the change to the bird guy is nice, makes it possible to actually win.

maybe because i mostly play level rooms nowadays since I only have enough time to do the trophies, but i mostly win against sap hearts with [card]suspected of treason[/card] so I cant really know how powerful it is, the other cards really needed the tweak imo.

Anihilate · 13-12-2011 03:48:13

Kiezan has 7/10
Brothers in arms+ Living Nature
Attack+4 & 10 magic damage

CANT CHAIN QQ

Amber Dagger+ Brothers in arms, 2 dd & attack+4
Amber Dagger+ Living nature, 2 dd & 10 magic damage

Mel has 6/9 double attack
Elfines recently got a really huge boost, so shush.

Rargor can't have telendar attack? Use Rockspeaker.

Can't get 2 turns of attack +4(8 with ttd) opposing defense -2? Rethink your deck, you're playing easy mode.

Can't chain? There are arseloads of cards that chain in this game, once again, rethink what you're doing.

Port: Cool beans, the little bastards can't deal 12+Damage and go for your next living characters.

Starboard: Imho, starboard was fine.

Calandra · 13-12-2011 03:49:06

i dont think they will get nerfed as i dont see any combination that appears unbeatable... maybe discard could need some attention or some easier counters but zil maro decks are beating hard but remain brakeable

the problem of changing nomads was that the presence of the avatar simply denied many different decks throughout all the guilds. in addition the cards were boosting his stats far beyond the reach of these few decks that actually were dangerous to him in a way that it appeared like a david-goliath scenario

now even if u are not using the avatar itself you are still using the cards that made him awefully powerful and in order to pull him down from imbathrone these cards needed the changes as well. so you can consider yourself as a collateral victim.

future will show in how far other decks will require changes as well or not but before avatar was released one could never really claim that one certain guild was able to beat all the others and thus i think that zil maros wont get any change in the near future.

pekpekkypek · 13-12-2011 04:10:08

Errata is always good, especially in the interest of balancing the game.

BUT, it should not be used wantonly. It's there as a last resort, as a sort of miracle-bandage, but it's no excuse for the card development team to muck up releases.

In fact, and I have always said so, I'd rather have releases that are spaced farther apart if it guarantees balance (or as close to balance as we can possibly achieve) than weekly releases that have doodies like Sol'Ra Avatar, which I have never had the pleasure of seeing in ELO but, reading the card, screams broken.

Dernière modification par pekpekkypek (13-12-2011 04:16:34)

Calandra · 13-12-2011 04:23:25

pekpekkypek a écrit :

Errata is always good, especially in the interest of balancing the game.
BUT, it should not be used wantonly. It's there as a last resort, as a sort of miracle-bandage, but it's no excuse for the card development team to muck up releases.
In fact, and I have always said so, I'd rather have releases that are spaced farther apart if it guarantees balance (or as close to balance as we can possibly achieve) than weekly releases that have doodies like Sol'Ra Avatar, which I have never had the pleasure of seeing in ELO but, reading the card, screams broken.

+1

Caitlyn · 13-12-2011 05:45:52

Calandra a écrit :

pekpekkypek a écrit :
Errata is always good, especially in the interest of balancing the game.
BUT, it should not be used wantonly. It's there as a last resort, as a sort of miracle-bandage, but it's no excuse for the card development team to muck up releases.
In fact, and I have always said so, I'd rather have releases that are spaced farther apart if it guarantees balance (or as close to balance as we can possibly achieve) than weekly releases that have doodies like Sol'Ra Avatar, which I have never had the pleasure of seeing in ELO but, reading the card, screams broken.
+1

+1=2

i am all for having the cards released a bit later or something if it helps promote balance

Denny Delacroix · 13-12-2011 05:49:12

Finally they nerfed those overpowered cards! I'm surprised they did not put brothers in arms and dais intervention on the unique category as well.....it was like kensensei and to the rescue x3.

Dernière modification par Denny Delacroix (13-12-2011 05:50:03)

MoonFever · 13-12-2011 06:27:44

Thing is....when talking about F2P games...Did you know that the highest grossing MMO's in the world are F2P games, and not those that charge a monthly fee? It's the business model. All the microtransactions are where the profit is.

So don't damn Feerik for doing what is profitable. They are in it to make money at this. Appreciate what is free, but understand to get full content may cost some money.

magius · 13-12-2011 07:22:29

Btw... when is this come into effect? Brother in Arm is still chainable I'll check the Reinforce Faith... perhaps it is just the change in Text but the effect is not implemented yet.

TPPK · 13-12-2011 08:59:09

"Balancing" the cards is an opinion.

Currently they destroyed the natural counters of these decks, mainly nehant based. (Portal combat is a joke when facing eclipse or avatar) and DMR is a simple game over for race decks.

The solution to Keizan is also a stomp in the bark for world tree mages. Rain dance and sanctuary are two cards who negate the nerf to Keizan anyway, so this was pointless and more harmful to decks that use lots of nature spells.

Brother in arms isn't nerfed. MMM decks can still chain the cards for +12 damage boosts. I don't dislike the removal of chain but it is merely an annoyance to grave diggers and not Amnezy attendants.

magius · 13-12-2011 09:24:20

I think Eclipse will now taking a backseat. Looking through the deck strategy, [card]Reinforce the Faith[/card] has always been overpowered, rightly so deserve the errata (since [card]Time to die[/card] is in the picture).

However, losing chain in [card]Sol'ra Eclipse[/card] hurt the Eclipse Priest version quite a lot since they have 0 defense, with Iolmarek reducing their Spirit to 0.

Oh well, like Icarus flown too close to the sun, I'll park my Marauder/Priest Eclipse deck for now.

Dernière modification par magius (13-12-2011 09:24:44)

DaRkStAr666 · 13-12-2011 10:38:30

Monday December 19, 2011 we have an exception title, procedure of card modifications.

rutse · 13-12-2011 10:49:11

Great!!!

Hope next step is to do something with The Eternal, Theft and Treacherous.

ll_Kuala_ll · 13-12-2011 10:57:28

I think that [card]Solaris[/card] should be modified as well because I think that this is also an OP card with its effects. Either remove the defense effect since Nomads already has cards that decreases the defense of its opponents or make it "Unique" like [card]Living Nature[/card]. Just some of my thoughts after seeing this news. (=^.^=)

Paladino.:RR:. · 13-12-2011 10:59:34

Hey Calandra, but you did get the Ishaia Assassination didn't you? I mean it didn't need to be you playing it, if your oponent played assassination with Angelica, you would also get the hint, if I'm not wrong.

On topic,

I agree with the changes, I actually disliked more the remove of chain in the Sol'ra eclipse than in the Brothers in Arms, SAP can still chain a lot, while they change in Sol'ra eclipse was focused on fixed it's oppones on the eclipse decks, and ignored the fact that it was a strong card was really usefull for other nomads decks.

But on the overall I aprove the changes, especially in the avatar.

magius · 13-12-2011 11:28:19

rutse a écrit :

Great!!!
Hope next step is to do something with The Eternal, Theft and Treacherous.

Must... not... use... sarcasm.

Seriously, errata is good for really really problematic card (that causes power shift in the game).

Theft is random and Treacherous is useless against Warriors. How are they overpowered? Discard decks are still being destroyed by Aggro decks so no inbalance there.

And yeah... for the post about Solaris, with Nomads generally 0 defense, nerfing Solaris is like nerfing the entire Nomad Guild. Not a great idea. But nerfing Reinforce Faith is a good choice when the effect staggers to next turn whereby Eclipse characters can still play cards such as Assassination, making them OP IMHO.

Errata is good but only when used sparingly after playtesting a certain card or after a card is being "tried and tested" by general player base.

Gent M · 13-12-2011 14:48:31

Seriously, errata is good for really really problematic card (that causes power shift in the game).

You are perfectly right but a player who only has a noz blaster deck will think Treacherous is Armageddon.

As for discard being overpowered that is just a joke. Sure a strong discard deck will destroy most mage decks as well as most mediocre builds but that can be said by a strong immortal or hydra deck too.

Rathedan · 13-12-2011 14:58:41

You are perfectly right but a player who only has a noz blaster deck will think Treacherous is Armageddon.

One deck having an advantage over one other deck is not overpowered. That's part of the meta game.

One deck having the advantage over every other deck, however, is subject for errata.

Rolth · 13-12-2011 16:49:19

Happy with the new modifications. I didn't really see a problem with Sol'ra's Eclipse chaining, but I've never used the Avatar either. Good job dev's! I've been thinking that I would like to see updates spaced farther apart as well, or just take a week to not release anything and instead fix all of the bugs or balance issues. I would understand if I saw a post stating that they were doing exactly that. I also think that the Devs need to set up a post with ALL of their fixes. I think a lot of things are being fixed that they aren't getting credit for (like when the Mercenary deck wasn't coming to people after they played the updated tutorial).

Anyway, a huge THANK YOU for the Sap Heart changes. They destroyed me every time by turn 4.

As for whether the Dev's actually play the game when it comes to questioning balance - how often is 1 single card OP? More often than not they need to chain with something else in order to deal tremendous damage, so it becomes "can this character get this card to chain with this card" which isn't OP, just really lucky. Also, they can't possibly play with EVERY combination of cards in the game. You would generally have rules you follow to keep them in line with similar cards and that will work at least 75% of the time. Most of the time you would use almost a points system to create a new card. You would obviously have to play it to make sure it works as intended, but you might not think of every combination.

magius · 13-12-2011 17:15:38

Gent M a écrit :

As for discard being overpowered that is just a joke. Sure a strong discard deck will destroy most mage decks as well as most mediocre builds but that can be said by a strong immortal or hydra deck too.

I totally agree with your point. I feel majority of people prefer to play an aggressive deck and considers deck with alternate win condition overpowered.

Having played most kind of decks (discard included), the card changes so far are justified. The only reservation I have is the Iolmarek-based Eclipse deck that sorely need something after the deletion of chain in Sol'Ra Eclipse. I guess back to drawing board.

soulst3al3r · 13-12-2011 18:25:25

magius a écrit :

Gent M a écrit :
As for discard being overpowered that is just a joke. Sure a strong discard deck will destroy most mage decks as well as most mediocre builds but that can be said by a strong immortal or hydra deck too.
I totally agree with your point. I feel majority of people prefer to play an aggressive deck and considers deck with alternate win condition overpowered.
Having played most kind of decks (discard included), the card changes so far are justified. The only reservation I have is the Iolmarek-based Eclipse deck that sorely need something after the deletion of chain in Sol'Ra Eclipse. I guess back to drawing board.

I feel the same way man about sol'ra eclipse. I understand why people would want to remove reinforce the faith but rather than sol'ra eclipse, they should have fixed harshness instead. Mages still have no chance against sol'ra avatar

karnoki · 14-12-2011 03:10:35

Baliking a écrit :

Thanks to destroyed my CDS deck with this Brother in arms no chain..omg this is totaly stupid change; cause Sap's dont have chain cards which is good so this change is a big crap thing -.-

+1 to you

Sap Heart Multirace need Chain be important.

living nature.. OK will be unique can accept and it is reasonable.
BUT... Brother in arm = = I think set it be... "+At from number of your race of your Characters out of combat, Chain"... still be more OK than this - -... No chain for real now.

karnoki · 14-12-2011 03:14:01

Erezil a écrit :

Removing the chain from Brothers in arms seems a bit too much. I play mainly Sap decks and while I don't mind the mods too much, eliminating the chain for the card will undoubtedly limit Sap decks. Multi-race sap decks have 3 main cards. Brothers in arms, Living Nature, and and Dais Intervention. Living nature is now unique??? Fine, its powerful, so be it. But removing the chain seems extreme. Why not reduce the effect; +3 attack if there are at least 3 races? Do the devs even play this game?
Someone mentioned that since most saps are warriors they all have item chains. I personally run 2 multi-race decks, 1 of which doesn't use weapons. Depending on what the current trophy/event is. With +4 atk from bro' and +5 defense/+1 life from dais' weapons aren't always needed. Now there isn't even a real choice.
I don't generally get on here to complain about things but this topic needs more attention.

+1 to you too (from the guy who love the green tree...)

Anihilate · 14-12-2011 04:11:58

rutse a écrit :

Great!!!
Hope next step is to do something with The Eternal, Theft and Treacherous.

Eternal is about as broken as Abomb or the shadow, he's really not that great by him self. A solid filler at best.

Theft is fine, it's series 1, it's been beaten up until now, and nothing is making it any stronger.

Treacherous is fair as well. It penalizes opponent's with high spirit while not really bothering low spirit character's.

Granted most are afraid to put 0 spirit characters.

Eredan's World

Annonce

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