Vous n'êtes pas identifié(e).
Eredan iTCG forums move. You can find them at this adress: http://forums.eredan.com/index.php.
Eredan GT forums stay here, the same for the old Eredan iTCG forums who pass in read only.
Les forums d'Eredan iTCG ont déménagés. Retrouvez-les à cette adresse : http://forums.eredan.com/index.php.
Les forums d'Eredan GT restent ici, ainsi que les anciens forums d'Eredan iTCG qui y seront toujours en lecture seule.
Pages : 1
Discussion fermée
I don't understand at all, Why mages are made able to chain every spell cards?
Marauder can't chain every marauder card
Warrior can't chain every warrior card
Priest can't chain every theurgy card
It is something that makes mage-deck kicks everything!
You won't have bad hand card with no chain because you can chain everything!
(not)Surprisingly, every spell card is expensive, why?
Because it's super-duper-freaking-STRONG-which-can-chain-everything card
It's not that mage are overpowered and uncounterable, but just the system is not fair
There are spell which commonly used as chain such as last word etc, but even without those 'last word combo', they can easily double ROD to double the damage.
Well, zil set would really love to if they can go straight asasination-asasination instead of TTD+asssasination (except for telendar, we're not discussing character specific perks)
do you guys get the idea?
Dernière modification par uhuy5 (09-03-2011 13:40:28)
Hors ligne
Hello,
Mages can chain spells, yes, but not every spell card. Zone spells cannot be chained.
Given that mages tend to have low defense, and loose their physical attack by casting a spell, it is only fair to give them equal amount of threat than a warrior/marauder/etc.
Mages don't start with 4 spirit most of the time, while warriors start with a fairly high physical attack. It's a game design mechanism, nothing more.
They have a fair "threat value", removing the ability to chain spell cards would make them only usable in fun decks, while in the actual metagame, they can achieve a bit more than that.
To finish with, I don't understand why you are complaining about something that works, but you consider yourself "not overpowered". Was it really worth a topic?
« The time has come. »
Ancien Community Manager Eredan iTCG. De bons moments passés ensemble !
Hors ligne
It's just unfair to see mage has no bad-chain hand cards isn't it?
They lose their physical attack to warrior, but also take a notes that magical damage doesn't count defense, while attack reduced by defense.
Which also means that spirit itself is working as their defense right? So mage has double defense, 1 against another mage, and the other 1 is normal defense for non-mage character.
So, i think
Given that mages tend to have low defense, and loose their physical attack by casting a spell, it is only fair to give them equal amount of threat than a warrior/marauder/etc.
it's not even
even more,
Mages don't start with 4 spirit most of the time, while warriors start with a fairly high physical attack. It's a game design mechanism, nothing more.
warrior mostly starts with just normal not high physical attack, and mediocore to high defense, which is nullified by the magical attack
so, everything is already balanced except the chain in every spell card, is it?
They can just follow the rule for having chain specific card like everyone else and we can find a more balanced version in this game (IMO)
Dernière modification par uhuy5 (09-03-2011 14:17:45)
Hors ligne
I believe warriors and marauders can beat mages with the right cards, and you must take into account that if they beat you its because that, they use the appropiate cards.
If you wanna talk about the attack of some warriors or marauder why dont you take into account [card]Abomination[/card], [card]The Shadow[/card], [card]Iro the duelist[/card] in lvl 4... the double attack of the elfines or the combo of the Crow caste...
There are a lot of powerful cards out there, you can keep complaining or just make a deck that works fine againts other decks...
I wish I could show you when you are lonely or in darkness the astonishing light of your own being. (Hafez)
Hors ligne
If you wanna talk about the attack of some warriors or marauder.....
Very Out of Topic? LOL
good post, keep it up!
Hors ligne
Not so sure how thats off topic....you complain about non-chainability of warriors and marauders...
Zil marauders can chain and do 16-20 damage turn one. Koto warriors, with a slightly higher hit pool, can hit for a bit less, but I've seen 14-16 turn one before...
And if you're complaining about non-chainable decks for non-mages, you're building your deck completely wrong.
Marauder decks have Warriors Fury, Fist blades, and Assasinate, Time to Die, and mostly all marauder action/item cards that chain with telendar or the before mentioned cards.
Koto Warr Decks play with swords for Gaky and Iro to chain, Keep your guard up to chain the items, Randori, Etcetera etcetera etcetera.
If you're bulding a similar deck without enough chainable cards in it, you're basically building only half a house and then complaining when it leaks in a rainstorm.
The point is, good decks have more than half the cards in it as multiple chainable cards. Having 10 to 12 chainable cards basically guarantees no matter your starting hand, you can play 2 cards.
It's balanced for spells because of two reasons:
1) Powerful spells are guild restricted, not every mage can use every spell.
2) Using 2 offensive spells, with low HP mages, begs to be one shotted, and usually is unless other mages overloaded already on defense. Chaining into a staff or the likes is equally dangerous, without the high damage output to offset it.
Spells are just a unique way of getting the same output as a warrior or marauder. Marauders use actions, Warriors use items, Mages use spells. The output of the three numbers - Damage out, Defense in, Health lost - output by any of the three by fights end can be, and will be, nearly equal. Good decks facing good decks won't win by blowouts, but rather by a few points, no mater whos facing who.
If there were no luck in TCG, how boring would that be?
-Lonak
Hors ligne
Mages being able to chain spells is the class related bonus they get. Other classes get other bonis, such as warriors can chain items, marauders gain bonis, reliant on certain opponents, craftsmen can equip other characters with craftsmen items and so forth.
It is true that the mages ability to chain after almost any other spell is pretty hefty and allows them to pool out of a large variety of possibilities, but when you look at what other classes have and ACTUALLY COMPAIRE them, you will find out it is not so bad.
The first. The best. MSN.
Visit our guild's thread here and join up!
Also check this out: An English chat room!
Hors ligne
Not so sure how thats off topic....you complain about non-chainability of warriors and marauders...
Calm down please, it's not about non-chainability of warriors and marauders if you read again carefully my first post.
It's about mage chain every spell. Come on don't you see the difference? Or is it so hard to differentiate them?
Mages being able to chain spells is the class related bonus they get. Other classes get other bonis, such as warriors can chain items, marauders gain bonis, reliant on certain opponents, craftsmen can equip other characters with craftsmen items and so forth.
ok back to what the problem is,
warrior get bonus can chain items, but its SPECIFIC, not all items
marauders also, so what's the point in giving mage every spell chain?
Marauder decks have Warriors Fury, Fist blades, and Assasinate, Time to Die, and mostly all marauder action/item cards that chain with telendar or the before mentioned cards.
Sorry to mention it again, it's not about the lack of warrior of marauder chain.
Mages also have very good "supposed-to-chain card" such as Last Word, but they still have almost every spell to substitute those "supposed-to-chain card" when they don't have those card.
Let's say,
During first turn, marauder deck got 3 Assasination and 2 War's Fury in hand.
He will play it only with fury+assasination? +3-4 dmg and still lack of def.
Too bad, you get bad hand... try again next time. (case would be different with telendar ability, but in general the point i want to tell you is the same)
Let's say again,
During first turn, mage deck got 3 RoD and 2 Burn in Hell in hand.
He will play RoD-RoD and then discard 2 Burn in Hell.
No bad hand card since you can chain everything
got it?
It's balanced for spells because of two reasons:
1) Powerful spells are guild restricted, not every mage can use every spell.
2) Using 2 offensive spells, with low HP mages, begs to be one shotted, and usually is unless other mages overloaded already on defense. Chaining into a staff or the likes is equally dangerous, without the high damage output to offset it.
1.) Which noz mages can't play 90% of the spells in game? (Non-noz mage unluckily didn't meet feerik before they were invented, HAHA)
2.) Marauder using 2 offensive action, with low HP marauders, begs to be one shotted. It's always fair to trade equal amount of defense with such good chance of one-shot-kill opponent.
Spells are just a unique way of getting the same output as a warrior or marauder. Marauders use actions, Warriors use items, Mages use spells. The output of the three numbers - Damage out, Defense in, Health lost - output by any of the three by fights end can be, and will be, nearly equal. Good decks facing good decks won't win by blowouts, but rather by a few points, no mater whos facing who.
This is exactly what I'm talking about in this topic. Since it's a unique way to get output, why don't they make the system being the same for chaining? Otherwise, mage will have special power to have a chance to deal more output with double-spell, intead of chain-spell.
Dernière modification par uhuy5 (10-03-2011 01:56:14)
Hors ligne
ok back to what the problem is,
warrior get bonus can chain items, but its SPECIFIC, not all items
marauders also, so what's the point in giving mage every spell chain?
Noz are supposed to be the magic Tank in Eredan ITCG as Zil are Maruaders and Koto are Warriors and Nomads are Priests... they just are THE MAGES... so they have the SPELLS...
is the same as if I say "WHY ALL THE NOMADS PRIEST CAN CAST EVERY THEURGY IN THIS GAME?" if you check the Noz Rooster they has no Priest... nor does Kotoba as far as I and the Marketplace Know... it's a Guild Benefit if you want to call it that way... you play with it... it's how it works.
also the Mage Chains every spell Because most of the Times Mages do not attack... once you cast a Fireball you miss the atack fase... if it comes that way the mages users would be complaining about why the mages do not attack.
also let's take the most common marauder right now on the Marketplace we find [card]Selene[/card] she has attack 6/9 so say we equip her [card]assassination[/card] and the respective [card]simple Dagger[/card] so we make her attack 10/13 so against herself with defense of 1 we make 9/12 damage wich is enough in some cases to be a one hit kill... she can even kill herself
now let's make it with the most common Mage right now on the marketplace... [card]Pilkim[/card] who has an attack of 3/6 and a Spirit of 2 if we play a [card]fireball[/card] and a [card]Smoked arrow[/card] we have 5/7 damage from the fireball and 3/5 from the arrow against himself and his spirit 2 we have 4/8 of damage... wich is not enough to kill another Pilkim...
if we give them an attack after the spell and take away that spell chaining we get even less damage... lets say it againt [card]pilkim[/card] vs. [card]pilkim[/card] [card]fireball[/card] and attack so we have after the damage calculation 3/5 from the spell and 1/4 of his attack it makes from 4 to 9 of total damage wich in best case scenario leave an enemy pilkim with 2 hp remaining...
Marauders are far more overpowered than mages and the Chain-Every-Spell system makes just an almost fair fight...
Sorry to mention it again, it's not about the lack of warrior of marauder chain.
Mages also have very good "supposed-to-chain card" such as Last Word, but they still have almost every spell to substitute those "supposed-to-chain card" when they don't have those card.
Let's say, During first turn, marauder deck got 3 Assasination and 2 War's Fury in hand.
and If i get 2 [card]dragon armor[/card] an [card]Mystic Staff[/card] a [card]Feint[/card] and a [card]mirage cloak[/card]? (wich btw was a real hand I got once... my worst Mage hand ever)
Luck is Luck you must force the luck by building your deck in a way that most of the times you will get chains... if you aren't able to do so it's your fault not the games system fault.
Dernière modification par kemmotar_Veon (10-03-2011 03:29:38)
they have come... raise your weapons... choose your side...
Hors ligne
Noz are supposed to be the magic Tank in Eredan ITCG as Zil are Maruaders and Koto are Warriors and Nomads are Priests... they just are THE MAGES... so they have the SPELLS...
they can have spell, but they chain it all
can't you read or what?
is the same as if I say "WHY ALL THE NOMADS PRIEST CAN CAST EVERY THEURGY IN THIS GAME?" if you check the Noz Rooster they has no Priest... nor does Kotoba as far as I and the Marketplace Know... it's a Guild Benefit if you want to call it that way... you play with it... it's how it works.
they can have theurgy, but they can't chain all theurgy
can't you read or what?
also let's take the most common marauder right now on the Marketplace we find Selene she has attack 6/9 so say we equip her assassination and the respective simple Dagger so we make her attack 10/13 so against herself with defense of 1 we make 9/12 damage wich is enough in some cases to be a one hit kill... she can even kill herself
now let's make it with the most common Mage right now on the marketplace... Pilkim who has an attack of 3/6 and a Spirit of 2 if we play a fireball and a Smoked arrow we have 5/7 damage from the fireball and 3/5 from the arrow against himself and his spirit 2 we have 4/8 of damage... wich is not enough to kill another Pilkim...
Change the marauder with high defense character, then magic will shine.
the usual strategy game is, massive attack char--> mages--> massive def char ---> massive attack char. Everyone as it's own role, but the ability to chain every spell card is somewhat uniquely ONLY for mages.
and If i get 2 dragon armor an Mystic Staff a Feint and a mirage cloak? (wich btw was a real hand I got once... my worst Mage hand ever)
why on earth would you put so much equip if you can chain every other spell card?
Look at your own words:
Luck is Luck you must force the luck by building your deck in a way that most of the times you will get chains... if you aren't able to do so it's your fault not the games system fault.
There is no luck involved in no-chain-hand card with every-spell-can-chain.
Dernière modification par uhuy5 (10-03-2011 04:53:46)
Hors ligne
I don't understand at all, Why mages are made able to chain every spell cards?
Marauder can't chain every marauder card
Warrior can't chain every warrior card
Priest can't chain every theurgy card
It seems like your issue is that building a mage deck takes less strategy and has less chances of bad luck.
Your right. You win.
This is one of the reasons why Noz are a strong starting deck that perform well even in ELO. However, it is not overpowered. Good deck builders can almost completly eliminate bad hands.
The only way to really argue against why this needs no adjusting is by looking at mage hybrids. Mage hybrids are easily just as powerful and maybe even more versitle than pure mages. I would rather someone cast two rain of deaths in one fight than to cast a rain of death each round followed by a 6-9+ base attack for three rounds.
Not even including all the fun combo's that mage hybrids can get from being a warrior or maurader. Mage hybrid's using no class restrictions vs a pure mage deck would be a good way of showing that the pure mage class ability is not overpowered or worth adjusting. It evens out.
Hors ligne
I really do not understand why you are complaining about this so severely. If you are worried about balance issues, the game has many other far more worse than mages being able to chain and use almost every spell card.
Nobody neds to justify why they implemented the system to be like that. Feerik developed it because they want it that way. If it was so unbalanced, they would have done something about it already. It's as simple as that.
I'd seriously recommend you just drop it. Only making an as out of yourself in persisting on this matter. lol
The first. The best. MSN.
Visit our guild's thread here and join up!
Also check this out: An English chat room!
Hors ligne
Hello,
uhuy5, please keep yourself calm. No need to attack people trying to explain you why the game works that way, and how, even with chaining, mages don't particularly do as much damage as some other character classes.
I'm locking this thread now, before it begins to get where I fear it's going.
Topic closed.
*click*
« The time has come. »
Ancien Community Manager Eredan iTCG. De bons moments passés ensemble !
Hors ligne
Pages : 1
Discussion fermée