Eredan's World

Gangrel · 04-10-2010 08:29:21

Hey, i have thought of a possible fix to the market inflation and the riddiculously high prices some cards have. This could also avoid the long term market problems most online games have.

Option 1:

-Allow Non-paying players to trade, but crarge them a fee (i think 30% could be reasonable). This way, the 30% of the Crystals the buyers pay are taken off the market, making the offer-demand relation more sustainable.

Option 2 (AKA, if you don't want free players trading):

-Charge a % fee when a card is put for sale (5-15% max) so the player will think twice before putting a card at a price that isn't logical (the fee doesn't refund if the card ios not sold).

Both are Crystal sinks so there isn't a "More time with the game running = more crystals in the player's accounts = higher prices" situation.

I hope you like the idea or want to contribute with another alternative.

Luxo2011 · 04-10-2010 08:50:41

So I'm a paying player, i don't want to loose money, so I keep my cards and don't put them on the market just not to lose the 5-15%...

Gangrel · 04-10-2010 10:09:13

If you do that, you won't win any crystals... just the ones won by playing/daily crystals.
But it will make you think twice before putting a card for sale at a price it isn't worth.

Luxo2011 · 04-10-2010 11:00:22

Gangrel a écrit :

If you do that, you won't win any crystals... just the ones won by playing/daily crystals.
But it will make you think twice before putting a card for sale at a price it isn't worth.

how do you decide if a price isn't worth it?
Just because someone put an Giant for 40.000cx on the market, you shouldn't put it for 70.000 on the market?
No, so you put it on the market, but the next player coming will see that the last one was sold for 40.000 and will think 70.000 is too much?

It's a Market, so everybody can ask the money they wish for, it's up to you to decide if you're ok for paying that amount or not.

Some nehants level1 were sold for 380.000cx, is the card worth that amount? Personaly, i would say no, but for some people did...

bleachman · 04-10-2010 13:43:43

The first option sounds okay, though I personally beleive the devs should make this game a slight bit more freebie friendly than that.

Second option.. No way. I am not paying 15% to put up a card, 10% if it sells. Thats a good chucnk of lost crystals. Do consider cards are only up for 3-4 days and then are removed from the market to be put back in again.

Inflation at the moment is only so ridiculous because people are actually paying the prices. This mostly occurs in the foil card department, normal cards get stable eventually. Rarely you see cards hit a super high amount unless its a brand new card or high in demand due to events (such as spell cards this week for the Prophet trophy).

Luxo2011 · 04-10-2010 13:57:33

If you want a free game, just go and play windows solitaire...

Sorry for being so sarcastic, but the devs are living of the games they develope, and it's clear they want to be remunerated for their work and their reactivity all day long.
So it is clear they aim their efforts on people "paying" rather than on those you come by and play for free. Their goal is to have those people also buy some feez, even if only a small amount.

I don't believe that you would work for no money at all just because your work is appreciated by other people...

bleachman · 04-10-2010 14:55:24

You missunderstand. The game could at least let freebie players be able to sell their cards. I see this more as a priviledge to us paying customers, as they will enable us to get more quantities of cards instead of having them vanish in f2p accounts.

The company gets plenty of revenue and I am sure hardly anybody would switch to f2p who has been paying feez for packs/trophies. I surely wouldn't.

Proximus · 04-10-2010 17:53:13

I'm a strong believer that (most) markets regulate themselves, also this game's. The market price stands in direct relation to booster cost, time needed for acquiring crystals, supply and demand. If any of those factors changes, so does the price. A taxation of 10% is fair, I've seen online markets that work without real taxation (Battleforge) and give full benefit to clever traders without bankrupting the provider. I think it's already a huge plus for f2p players that there is no secondary market for feez only and to be honest, crystals are comparable easy to acquire - you won't be capable of stocking up to 3 Assassinates in a week, but at least you have a long term game plan

If you don't want to spend a lot of money on the game, buy some <1000 crystal common chars, level them up, spend 5 euros once to unlock trading, put them up for sale and profit. This is a good game with an outstanding update policy, the devs deserve some contribution.

On a side note, the only real problem I see is that booster prices are quite steep. Excluding discounts, for 5 Euros you get almost one booster with 12 cards, including a single rare, which is more expensive than buying a physical MtG booster for example. A digital good should cost less than it's physical counterpart for obvious reason.

Dernière modification par Proximus (04-10-2010 17:53:55)

Politikas · 04-10-2010 18:15:56

***bip*** solves it by letting free players to sell only 1 card a day, with local specific in mind in could be 1 card in 3 days or even 1 card a week, and still work.

doubledipper · 04-10-2010 18:17:40

I agree with Proximus. The market will regulate itself. If you don't want to pay too much for a card don't buy it. Bottom line is the devs are not running a charity. They have families to feed. "Inflation" is part of life. I hate paying over $3.00 for a gallon of milk at the grocery store but it happens a few times a year. Supply and demand determines what a card is worth. I am a paying player and should not be punished because some players feel that the game is unfair because they didn't invest any money and don't have enough crystals to get Gaky or Kounok the Prophet. Go down to your local comic shop and ask them to give you a free starter deck for MtG. They'll laugh at you.

Gangrel · 04-10-2010 21:22:30

Luxo2011 a écrit :

how do you decide if a price isn't worth it?
Just because someone put an Giant for 40.000cx on the market, you shouldn't put it for 70.000 on the market?
No, so you put it on the market, but the next player coming will see that the last one was sold for 40.000 and will think 70.000 is too much?
It's a Market, so everybody can ask the money they wish for, it's up to you to decide if you're ok for paying that amount or not.
Some nehants level1 were sold for 380.000cx, is the card worth that amount? Personaly, i would say no, but for some people did...

I don't, the buyers do. So you would have to ACTUALLY THINK if the card will be bought before you put it for sale.

Proximus a écrit :

I'm a strong believer that (most) markets regulate themselves, also this game's. The market price stands in direct relation to booster cost, time needed for acquiring crystals, supply and demand. If any of those factors changes, so does the price. A taxation of 10% is fair, I've seen online markets that work without real taxation (Battleforge) and give full benefit to clever traders without bankrupting the provider. I think it's already a huge plus for f2p players that there is no secondary market for feez only and to be honest, crystals are comparable easy to acquire - you won't be capable of stocking up to 3 Assassinates in a week, but at least you have a long term game plan
If you don't want to spend a lot of money on the game, buy some <1000 crystal common chars, level them up, spend 5 euros once to unlock trading, put them up for sale and profit. This is a good game with an outstanding update policy, the devs deserve some contribution.
On a side note, the only real problem I see is that booster prices are quite steep. Excluding discounts, for 5 Euros you get almost one booster with 12 cards, including a single rare, which is more expensive than buying a physical MtG booster for example. A digital good should cost less than it's physical counterpart for obvious reason.

I partially agree, but think about how an overflow of crystals in the hands of the richest traders in the game will affect it and how it would be for a newbie in a year or so...

Luxo2011 a écrit :

If you want a free game, just go and play windows solitaire...
Sorry for being so sarcastic, but the devs are living of the games they develope, and it's clear they want to be remunerated for their work and their reactivity all day long.
So it is clear they aim their efforts on people "paying" rather than on those you come by and play for free. Their goal is to have those people also buy some feez, even if only a small amount.
I don't believe that you would work for no money at all just because your work is appreciated by other people...

????
And this is related to what i said.... how?
I'm just saying, that if a player that doesn't want to pay from day one, starts the game, and sees he needs to play 1000 games to buy his first card, the game will be out of no players pretty soon.
This won't happen today, or soon, i hope, but i've seen it happen in many online games.

doubledipper a écrit :

I agree with Proximus. The market will regulate itself. If you don't want to pay too much for a card don't buy it. Bottom line is the devs are not running a charity. They have families to feed. "Inflation" is part of life. [...] I am a paying player and should not be punished because some players feel that the game is unfair because they didn't invest any money and don't have enough crystals to get Gaky or Kounok the Prophet. Go down to your local comic shop and ask them to give you a free starter deck for MtG. They'll laugh at you.

It seems you don't understand how an online game works...
Inflation is ok, only if the players start to get more daily crystals/more crystals per battle. If it isn't that way, it's a problem. High prices= Frustrated newbies = No new paying players + Average ratio of people leaving the game = Dead game. And i like this game and want to play it for a long time.

doubledipper · 04-10-2010 23:03:15

Thank you for explaining to me how online games work.

The ONLY way this game will succeed is if people buy Fee'z. Just because a few cards go up in price doesn't mean everything does. If you looked you would see a drop in other cards. Also it is possible to see the average price for the last seven days. If someone is selling a card for 7000 when the average is 2500, DON'T BUY IT! Right now the only people that actually have enough crystals to buy cards at a high price are the ones who have bought Fee'z or did survey's and such to get them for free. It wouldn't matter if 100,000 people played this game, if nobody bought Fee'z the game would be dead. New players aren't worth anything unless they invest money into the game. New players + nobody buying Fee'z = no money to upgrade servers = people who spent money having a bad experience because the servers are lagging to bad. Bottom line is spend money or the game will die. The market isn't going to affect the game to the extent that you think. Either that or they're going to plaster banners and commercials all over the place to compensate for the lack of income from the game. If wanted to start playing any TCG you would have to invest quite a bit of money to get started.

Don't get so hung up on the market man, it's not that big of a deal.

Anihilate · 05-10-2010 22:19:28

Free players:
20 crystals to lose
40 to win
70 for a perfect
Obtain cards put on the market

Feez Players:
All of the above Above
Sell cards
Obtain cards put on the market
Obtain cards from a npc shop

Honestly, I don't see a reason not to let non-paying characters sell cards on the market, they would have had to buy it from the market, and worked to upgrade it if they want to sell it at a higher price. People would HAVE to buy feez regardless of non players selling cards,because those who buy boosters are the only people who increase the amount of cards in circulation.

At least newbies who don't blow cash on games day 1 can go, "hey, I can buy this card, work on it a couple of days and get this much money." And if they like the game, then they'll pay.

@Doubledipper: Did you dump money into the game on your first day? If so, good for you for having money to just throw away. Most people like to try something before they invest in it.

Instead of "I can't buy anything, there are over 100 cards in the set of the only booster pack they sell,I want a certain ONE.... its like 6 bucks for one pack, and I've got a 1/35 track record in the first two days" /ragequit

Dernière modification par Anihilate (05-10-2010 22:22:12)

doubledipper · 06-10-2010 06:32:52

I didn't "dump" money on my first day. I found the game very fun and after a few days decided to purchase some booster packs. That's how things go. Did you try sleeping in your house before you bought it? I don't think so.

If you want to enhance your experience spending a little bit of money will do that for you. They don't allow free players to sell on the market because again, it is a perk for those of us who gave them money to feed their kids. You don't work for free and shouldn't expect them to. Spend the six dollars one time and you would be able to sell on the market as well. If everyone did that they would make a whole bunch of money and would probably have more prizes and bigger payouts for tourneys. I put money into this game because I enjoy playing and I want to see it around in the long run. Not like the online version of the Marvel Vs System.:(

bleachman · 06-10-2010 07:11:08

Gangrel a écrit :

It seems you don't understand how an online game works...
Inflation is ok, only if the players start to get more daily crystals/more crystals per battle. If it isn't that way, it's a problem. High prices= Frustrated newbies = No new paying players + Average ratio of people leaving the game = Dead game. And i like this game and want to play it for a long time.

You need to add the following steps in your line of predicaments.

Due to the game being dead the game devs will be unemployed and thus will not be able to pay for bread from his local supermarket.

Due to the unpurchased bread, the supermarket will die and thus more people become unemployed.

After that the rest of the world will explode and poof in a magic ball of dust.

>_>

Seriously, there are plenty of ways to get free crystals. Considering a lot of useful characters and some really useful cards are available in fix prices in starter decks, you will always have a certain price range for those characters and cards. In addition, certain cards will always be really expensive. Free players just wont be able to buy them unless they save for ages. Quite frankly, I see no game online that offers freebies to get the dominating and best items/cards/whatever when at the same time paying customers already have troubles obtaining certain cards. If you are going to play for free, you should be used to it by now.

Do remember, inflation is one thing, high priced demands is another. If a card or a product is in high demand due to trends or just it being a new card, it will be high in price until eventually the market is saturated and the supply exceeds the demand. That is when the prices will sink and eventually stabalise as well. After playing this game for about 7 weeks, I can tell you a lot of cards still have stable prices they have had weeks ago. Only influences are minor ones as I suggested above.

I can understand your concern with 'rich' players 'dominating' the market, but quite frankly its still the mass that beats them. If you are looking at the normal market (seperated from the foil card market) the suppliers are in such numerous numbers its not even funny. Nobody is holding a monopoly and nobody will ensure we all have inflated prices. People wont pay overly high prices and the competition feel of the market will help ensure that prices sink over time as well.

There is no apocalyptical conclusion of the problem you see in our market and the game. You are literally just over reacting.

Melisandra · 04-01-2011 00:21:33

pls allow me bring card [card]Councilor Ishaia[/card] to you guys attention. I just negotiated with one guy two days about price, and we made a deal, he would sell it as 260K on market. I earned enough money during two days, then came back to check market, they all gone, only foil card left, but price extremely high, around 460K.

I believe only a small group of people with special taste felt interested in this card, limited to countesan or mages, like me, I want this card just coz getting bored with Noz mages deck which is fully leveled and well armed, then wanna switch to courtesan.

btw, I will appreciate if someone can sell [card]Councilor Ishaia[/card] with regular price on market.

Warhound90 · 04-01-2011 02:59:34

I dont see the market inflation as an issue, because I found a way around it; use Fee'z to get boosters and sell the contents. Lets face facts, its much easier to go with the current than fight against it, and trying to lobby a company to make major changes to a product to make it more friendly to people with no intention of putting any money into it is trying to backswim up a waterfall. At the end of the day this is a business and it needs to make money. I'd like to hand out free candy to orphans all day, but in reality I have to make money, and the Devs do too. This game has fantastic support already for free players, and most choose to get deeper into this game by paying into it, as it should be. Just go with the flow

skinnyeddie · 04-01-2011 03:31:56

I agree with the suggestion to allow free players to sell like 1 card a week. That allows them to get better cards in a more reasonable amount of time. Also, paying players who have the crystals, and who don't want to work on upgrading, will have better deals on upgraded cards because there will be more to go around. Chances are, prices of these cards will go down due to the influx from the free players.

As for Ishaia... Come on, she's legendary, she's powerful, she's hot (especially at level 3). Is there ever going to be a "normal" price? I don't think so. The supply for legendary cards will never reach an amount that would drive prices down due to fierce competition. The only thing that makes these prices go down are: desire for immediate sales, human error, and philanthropy. I saw a Foam Giant for 30K last week. I wanted to kick myself for not having the money. It promptly disappeared in a minute. But that's life. Somebody wanted 30K fast, he got it. Other guy got Foamy cheap. Both parties happy.

Lastly, I wouldn't mind if there were ads in the game. Like during the time the crystal thing fills up. I mean it's a great game. I would want it to last long and improve. Am I willing to see ads on a regular basis? Yes, if it means helping the company raise the necessary funds to improve the game and take care of its employees... and if it doesn't interfere with actual playing.

Melisandra · 04-01-2011 03:39:46

guys, i watched market everyday, Ishia's regular price just around 250K, but at that time I didn't want to buy. the lowest price of Ishia I ever saw is 100k, certainly it was sold out quickly, BUT the un-foil Ishia never went up to 300K !!!!!

IF YOU THINK legendary card should be expensive, you are WRONG, look at [card]Lady Yilith[/card] price in market right now, she is only 50k. even less than a fire ball, look at [card]foam giant[/card], it is around 70k right now, not expensive at all.

Kid, the price of card is not depend on rarity, but how many ppl need it. I think Ishia is not commonly needed card, so she doesn't deserve the price right now

skinnyeddie a écrit :

I agree with the suggestion to allow free players to sell like 1 card a week. That allows them to get better cards in a more reasonable amount of time. Also, paying players who have the crystals, and who don't want to work on upgrading, will have better deals on upgraded cards because there will be more to go around. Chances are, prices of these cards will go down due to the influx from the free players.
As for Ishaia... Come on, she's legendary, she's powerful, she's hot (especially at level 3). Is there ever going to be a "normal" price? I don't think so. The supply for legendary cards will never reach an amount that would drive prices down due to fierce competition. The only thing that makes these prices go down are: desire for immediate sales, human error, and philanthropy. I saw a Foam Giant for 30K last week. I wanted to kick myself for not having the money. It promptly disappeared in a minute. But that's life. Somebody wanted 30K fast, he got it. Other guy got Foamy cheap. Both parties happy.
Lastly, I wouldn't mind if there were ads in the game. Like during the time the crystal thing fills up. I mean it's a great game. I would want it to last long and improve. Am I willing to see ads on a regular basis? Yes, if it means helping the company raise the necessary funds to improve the game and take care of its employees... and if it doesn't interfere with actual playing.

Dernière modification par Melisandra (04-01-2011 04:03:05)

bleachman · 04-01-2011 04:15:40

Melisandra a écrit :

pls allow me bring card [card]Councilor Ishaia[/card] to you guys attention. I just negotiated with one guy two days about price, and we made a deal, he would sell it as 260K on market. I earned enough money during two days, then came back to check market, they all gone, only foil card left, but price extremely high, around 460K.
I believe only a small group of people with special taste felt interested in this card, limited to countesan or mages, like me, I want this card just coz getting bored with Noz mages deck which is fully leveled and well armed, then wanna switch to courtesan.
btw, I will appreciate if someone can sell [card]Councilor Ishaia[/card] with regular price on market.

Please do not resurrect old threads that have been inactive for almost 3 months...

skinnyeddie · 04-01-2011 04:44:02

Melisandra a écrit :

guys, i watched market everyday, Ishia's regular price just around 250K, but at that time I didn't want to buy. the lowest price of Ishia I ever saw is 100k, certainly it was sold out quickly, BUT the un-foil Ishia never went up to 300K !!!!!
IF YOU THINK legendary card should be expensive, you are WRONG, look at [card]Lady Yilith[/card] price in market right now, she is only 50k. even less than a fire ball, look at [card]foam giant[/card], it is around 70k right now, not expensive at all.
Kid, the price of card is not depend on rarity, but how many ppl need it. I think Ishia is not commonly needed card, so she doesn't deserve the price right now

First off, I love how you become condescending.

Second, I do not think legendary cards SHOULD be expensive. They just tend to be. And you know what, a significant part of it is just because they're rare. True, the need/demand for a card is a factor in its price, but that's not the only thing at work here.

Lastly, I agree with you that Ishaia is not commonly needed... if we are talking about the number of people who want to use her in a deck. But let's look at how many Ishaia cards are out in circulation and compare it to the number of people who want to use her in a deck, I'm betting more people need Ishaia than there are Ishaia cards. That's high demand and low supply. That makes for an expensive card.

Melisandra · 04-01-2011 15:49:15

I supposed to stop here, coz someone suggest to me. Only simply final short comment on Ishia, I studied Ishaia's attribute, find out she is a joke, even not as strong as my [card]Pilkim[/card], it is a waste to put her into my deck. I already gave up to buy her. but don't worry, if you have Ishaia eager to sell. I think there still someone like to buy this beautiful souvenir,

skinnyeddie a écrit :

Melisandra a écrit :
guys, i watched market everyday, Ishia's regular price just around 250K, but at that time I didn't want to buy. the lowest price of Ishia I ever saw is 100k, certainly it was sold out quickly, BUT the un-foil Ishia never went up to 300K !!!!!
IF YOU THINK legendary card should be expensive, you are WRONG, look at [card]Lady Yilith[/card] price in market right now, she is only 50k. even less than a fire ball, look at [card]foam giant[/card], it is around 70k right now, not expensive at all.
Kid, the price of card is not depend on rarity, but how many ppl need it. I think Ishia is not commonly needed card, so she doesn't deserve the price right now
First off, I love how you become condescending.
Second, I do not think legendary cards SHOULD be expensive. They just tend to be. And you know what, a significant part of it is just because they're rare. True, the need/demand for a card is a factor in its price, but that's not the only thing at work here.
Lastly, I agree with you that Ishaia is not commonly needed... if we are talking about the number of people who want to use her in a deck. But let's look at how many Ishaia cards are out in circulation and compare it to the number of people who want to use her in a deck, I'm betting more people need Ishaia than there are Ishaia cards. That's high demand and low supply. That makes for an expensive card.

Anihilate · 04-01-2011 21:17:52

Melisandra a écrit :

I supposed to stop here, coz someone suggest to me. Only simply final short comment on Ishia, I studied Ishaia's attribute, find out she is a joke, even not as strong as my [card]Pilkim[/card], it is a waste to put her into my deck. I already gave up to buy her. but don't worry, if you have Ishaia eager to sell. I think there still someone like to buy this beautiful souvenir...

Pilkim is a beast,and the first one is free. So...Saying "it isn't even good as pilkim" is like saying "I'm not going to use [card]Salem[/card], he isn't even as good as [card]Abomination[/card]"

Proximus · 04-01-2011 22:07:03

Melisandra a écrit :

I supposed to stop here, coz someone suggest to me. Only simply final short comment on Ishia, I studied Ishaia's attribute, find out she is a joke, even not as strong as my [card]Pilkim[/card], it is a waste to put her into my deck. I already gave up to buy her. but don't worry, if you have Ishaia eager to sell. I think there still someone like to buy this beautiful souvenir,

Yeah, you don't play Ishaia for her awesome stats, but for the fact that she is a courtesan (:)) for 4 guilds and the +1 spell effect thing. Order activation is nice for long games. She fulfills a whole different purpose, Noz mages won't swap Pilkim for Ishaia and, if it were possible, court players wouldn't swap Ishaia for Pilkim.

Anyway, why necro this topic? We already have enough topics about overpriced cards.

Melisandra · 05-01-2011 04:54:34

I apologize for my off-topic discussion, it is my last reply for this thread,

Just bought Ishaia with 220K,:D even cheaper than what I expected, now I felt what u said is correct, Ishaia's stats are awesome, I love her. LOL, actually it is easy to adapt her to my mages deck: [card]Councilor Ishaia[/card], [card]Pilkim[/card] n [card]Erevent[/card]

Proximus a écrit :

Melisandra a écrit :
I supposed to stop here, coz someone suggest to me. Only simply final short comment on Ishia, I studied Ishaia's attribute, find out she is a joke, even not as strong as my [card]Pilkim[/card], it is a waste to put her into my deck. I already gave up to buy her. but don't worry, if you have Ishaia eager to sell. I think there still someone like to buy this beautiful souvenir,
Yeah, you don't play Ishaia for her awesome stats, but for the fact that she is a courtesan (:)) for 4 guilds and the +1 spell effect thing. Order activation is nice for long games. She fulfills a whole different purpose, Noz mages won't swap Pilkim for Ishaia and, if it were possible, court players wouldn't swap Ishaia for Pilkim.
Anyway, why necro this topic? We already have enough topics about overpriced cards.

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 04-10-2010 08:29:21

Possible fix to market inflation

#2 04-10-2010 08:50:41

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#3 04-10-2010 10:09:13

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#4 04-10-2010 11:00:22

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#5 04-10-2010 13:43:43

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#6 04-10-2010 13:57:33

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#7 04-10-2010 14:55:24

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#8 04-10-2010 17:53:13

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#9 04-10-2010 18:15:56

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#10 04-10-2010 18:17:40

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#11 04-10-2010 21:22:30

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#12 04-10-2010 23:03:15

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#13 05-10-2010 22:19:28

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#14 06-10-2010 06:32:52

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#15 06-10-2010 07:11:08

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#16 04-01-2011 00:21:33

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#17 04-01-2011 02:59:34

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#18 04-01-2011 03:31:56

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#19 04-01-2011 03:39:46

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#20 04-01-2011 04:15:40

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#21 04-01-2011 04:44:02

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#22 04-01-2011 15:49:15

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#23 04-01-2011 21:17:52

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#24 04-01-2011 22:07:03

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

#25 05-01-2011 04:54:34

Re : Possible fix to market inflation

Pied de page des forums