Eredan's World

Akenatoun · 15-09-2012 12:21:49

So, i have a decent compendium deck and i have noticed this strange thing about crystal storm:
the first time i faced a furagu, i thought "ok, i just lost a game". And then i chose to fool around, so i played a crystal storm with my pythia. Here's the strange thing:next turn, one opposing character had lost 2 hp, the other 1 hp and the third none! WHAT???How is that possible?3 damage points from pythia (thanks to sylphide), 3 kotoba warriors =>3 healing from furagu!So they shouldn't have lost any life points!
The only reasonable explanation i can think of is that crystal storm does not deal damage SIMULTANEOUSLY but to each character separately. Thus the first character lost 3 hp and healed 1=2 damage, the second lost 3 and healed 2=1 damage and the third lost 3 and healed 3=0 damage. If that's the case, then another question rises: how is determined the order in which crystal storm deals damage?
So, has anyone else experienced the same thing? Does anyone know the reason why it's happening? Is it just a bug? WHAT'S HAPPENING?
If it wasn't concerning crystal storm, i wouldn't make such a fuss...but crystal storm is almost the most important card in any compendium deck (second to compendium secret), so i don't feel safe not knowing EXACTLY how it works

PS. Sorry about my english

Mladko · 15-09-2012 12:57:41

Experienced the same thing. Your explanation is plausible, too. But its vice versa.
The first damaged char gets healed 3 times, the second 2 times and the last only once, thats the case if all chars had full health, else no char should have taken damage because all chars are healed 3 times.
I wonder if that's the case wether Furagus ability is intended to work that way.

Stormholt · 15-09-2012 13:01:04

Well it's not a bug, it's a misundestood.

Look at furagu:

All your kotoba warriors heal 1 HP each time one of them suffers magic damage.

Okay, so wha this mean?

If you use a fireball on furagu, all the team will heal 1 HP
Cristal storm do 1 magic damage in each character, so Furagu passive hability, make them heal 3 Hp.

Akenatoun · 15-09-2012 18:21:25

Mladko a écrit :

Experienced the same thing. Your explanation is plausible, too. But its vice versa.
The first damaged char gets healed 3 times, the second 2 times and the last only once, thats the case if all chars had full health, else no char should have taken damage because all chars are healed 3 times.
I wonder if that's the case wether Furagus ability is intended to work that way.

Now that you mention it, on the second round,they don't loose any life points...

Zurga · 15-09-2012 21:08:44

Akenatoun a écrit :

WHAT'S HAPPENING?
If it wasn't concerning crystal storm, i wouldn't make such a fuss...but crystal storm is almost the most important card in any compendium deck (second to compendium secret), so i don't feel safe not knowing EXACTLY how it works

In computer science, there is nothing like "simultaneous action".
All events occurs sequentially.
So :
-Crystal storm deals damage to the first character, Furagu heals all characters, but 2 of them are full life and can't be healed.
- Crystal storm deals damage to the second character, Furagu heals all characters, Only one can't be healed due to no life to heal.
- Crystal storm deals damage to the third character, all are healed for one point.

And you have what you experiment.

On second turn, all characters can be healed so they don't loose any life point.

No magic, no unexplainable thing.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

Akenatoun · 15-09-2012 21:11:51

Ok thnx for everything!Now it's all cleared!

Inukai · 15-09-2012 22:56:16

Zurga a écrit :

In computer science, there is nothing like "simultaneous action".

Not even Simultaneous Multithreading?

Zurga · 15-09-2012 23:06:59

Multithreading allows you to create several thread but if you use the same core, the thread are not simultaneous.
One core is able to process only one instruction at a time.

Damncaster · 16-09-2012 12:27:39

Stormholt a écrit :

Well it's not a bug, it's a misundestood.
Look at furagu:
http://static.eredan.com/cards/web_big/us/DDpllhLL.png
All your kotoba warriors heal 1 HP each time one of them suffers magic damage.
Okay, so wha this mean?
If you use a fireball on furagu, all the team will heal 1 HP
Cristal storm do 1 magic damage in each character, so Furagu passive hability, make them heal 3 Hp.

So it´s a bug then xD it means all healed 3 (if you have only 1 crystal stormu can´t do what he did)

Zurga · 16-09-2012 12:51:38

Damncaster a écrit :

So it´s a bug then xD it means all healed 3 (if you have only 1 crystal stormu can´t do what he did)

Where is the bug ?
The pythia does 3 damage with the sylphid on her.

Akenatoun · 16-09-2012 13:05:45

Zurga a écrit :

In computer science, there is nothing like "simultaneous action".
All events occurs sequentially.

As it happens i am studying computer science! I agree that there can not be a simultaneous action, but the algorithm that calculates the damage dealt could run in two steps:
step one:character #1 loses 3 hp and furagu counter+1
character #2 loses 3 hp and furagu counter+1
character #3 loses 3 hp and furagu counter+1
step two:character #1 gains furagu counter hp.
character #2 gains furagu counter hp.
character #3 gains furagu counter hp.

If that were the case they wouldn't have losta any lp on the first round and it would LOOK as if it had happened simultaneously!

Dernière modification par Akenatoun (16-09-2012 13:07:06)

Zurga · 16-09-2012 13:13:19

If you read Furagu, it says "All of your kotobas warrior heal 1HP each time one of them suffers magic damage".
So the triggering part of this effect is "when one of them suffers magic damage"
This leads directly to the existing effect :
Crystal storm does damage to the first character => triggers Furagu effect
Crystal storm does damage to the second character => triggers Furagu effect
Crystal storm does damage to the third character => triggers Furagu effect.

There is no indication on any card that the effect of Furagu is delayed when it should trigger.

Inukai · 16-09-2012 13:19:02

Zurga a écrit :

Multithreading allows you to create several thread but if you use the same core, the thread are not simultaneous.

You should look up the difference between Multithreading and Simultanous Multithreading(smt), they are not the same. Even single cores are able to run different threads at the same time(hyperthreading).

Well, it doesn't matter for this topic anyway. Fact is that most compendium bugs are caused by bad game design(Blanche D'Arcania, Furagu, ..) that's why they aren't fixed yet.

Zurga · 16-09-2012 13:26:36

Inukai a écrit :

Zurga a écrit :
Multithreading allows you to create several thread but if you use the same core, the thread are not simultaneous.
You should look up the difference between Multithreading and Simultanous Multithreading(smt), they are not the same. Even single cores are able to run different threads at the same time(hyperthreading).

Nonsense.
One core is able to process one instruction at a time.
Even it comes from several thread or is able to switch to another thread during time he wait for the first one.
Everything appears to be at th "same time" due to the limitation of the observer (i.e. the human standing before the computer) : we are unable to distinguish between operation that occur at nanosecond level.
You can do thing exactly at the same time if you have several processing units.

But this lead way to far.

Here, there is no bug with Furagu.
What bug did you speak about with Blanche ?

Inukai · 16-09-2012 14:33:19

Zurga a écrit :

Nonsense.

Let's cut this discussion, since you refuse to look up the terms i mentioned.
I can explain it via pm to you if you want , since it's "kind" off-topic.

Zurga a écrit :

Here, there is no bug with Furagu.

Are you kidding me? Crystal storm says it would dmg all enemies. It's common sense that it means that they take the dmg at the "same" time. (ofc, programming wise it's still one after another. But be honest dude, if eredan wouldn't be an itcg but a real one, what would you do? You wouldn't argue with "computers can't calculate the dmg simoultanous" but you would handle crystal storms effect as simoultanous dmg to all enemy chars.)

Zurga a écrit :

What bug did you speak about with Blanche ?

http://forum.eredan.com/viewtopic.php?id=46389

Dernière modification par Inukai (16-09-2012 15:42:57)

Stormholt · 16-09-2012 15:18:08

Inukai a écrit :

Are you kidding me? Crystal storm says it would dmg all enemies. It's common sense that it means that they take the dmg at the "same" time. (ofc, programming wise it's still one after another. But be honest dude, if eredan wouldn't be an itcg but a real one, what would you do? You wouldn't argue with "computers can't calculate the dmg simoultanous" but you would handle crystal storms effect as simoultanous dmg to all enemy chars.)

Dude come on! Cristal storm hits the 3, its a diferent magic damage to any character, fugaru heals 3 HP, No bug! And i belive that feerik created him to counter mages(AdE most) go on and try whit another AdE card, he'll heal 3 Hp of everyone too! And even if they take damage on the same turn(when everyone is with full HP) on the next turn they would heal... Furagu is a big counter to AdE cards... I advice you to take one [card]Sentence[/card], it kills him fast

Inukai · 16-09-2012 15:28:05

Stormholt a écrit :

Dude come on! Cristal storm hits the 3, its a diferent magic damage to any character, fugaru heals 3 HP, No bug!)

Thats not what im talking about xD
It's ok that he heals 3 hp, im absolute for it.
But Zurga tried to explain that it is no bug, that Furagu doesn't heal all chars for 3 hp after the first turn,(read the post of the Thread opener) with the argument that they take damage "one after another".

The problem is that Char A heals 3 hp, Char B heals 2 and Char C just 1 hp when they were all at 100% hp and the opponent uses an aoe.

Dernière modification par Inukai (16-09-2012 15:33:56)

Zurga · 16-09-2012 17:15:46

No bug again.

If someone has Full life, he can't heal.
Where it is written on the card that the effect of Furagu is delayed until each character is hit ?
The card doesn't indicate "all character suffer" but "each living character suffers ..."
So the card works one character after another.
Read the card...

For Blanche, the trouble is elsewhere, somewhere in the rules not written and we are waiting to the explanation from the staff.

And for the smt, pipelining thread doesn't mean the process unit does 2 operation at the same time...
Please, feel free to continue this discussion via MP in game or by email.

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 15-09-2012 12:21:49

Strange thing about crystal storm

#2 15-09-2012 12:57:41

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#3 15-09-2012 13:01:04

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#4 15-09-2012 18:21:25

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#5 15-09-2012 21:08:44

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#6 15-09-2012 21:11:51

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#7 15-09-2012 22:56:16

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#8 15-09-2012 23:06:59

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#9 16-09-2012 12:27:39

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#10 16-09-2012 12:51:38

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#11 16-09-2012 13:05:45

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#12 16-09-2012 13:13:19

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#13 16-09-2012 13:19:02

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#14 16-09-2012 13:26:36

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#15 16-09-2012 14:33:19

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#16 16-09-2012 15:18:08

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#17 16-09-2012 15:28:05

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

#18 16-09-2012 17:15:46

Re : Strange thing about crystal storm

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