Eredan's World

Gabriel_Caetano · 02-02-2011 23:32:10

the text on [card]firon [/card]says +1 for each item attached to the char the moment you play this card
the scrolls ( immobility, madness, whatever) ARE items and ARE attached to the char when you play firon, but firon don't activate...

what's wrong?

thanks

steven_allen · 03-02-2011 00:26:28

Actually, it says equipped. Scrolls and potions aren't equipped, they're used.

Majyqman · 03-02-2011 00:39:42

steven_allen a écrit :

Actually, it says equipped. Scrolls and potions aren't equipped, they're used.

Actually, it says attached.

And as Ascetic uses the exact same wording for what can be discarded by it and CAN hit scrolls/potions/etc... there's an issue with one of them here.

Gabriel_Caetano · 03-02-2011 01:19:28

steven_allen a écrit :

Actually, it says equipped. Scrolls and potions aren't equipped, they're used.

and the text in-game says attached not equipped

steven_allen · 03-02-2011 01:19:54

[card]Ascetic[/card] says each player loses an item at random, it doesn't specify equipped or attached. [card]Firon[/card] says at the moment its played, not at the end of turn, so I can see how it would be misunderstood. I don't think the mechanic for scrolls and potions is the same as weapons and armor. I don't believe that either of them are ever "attached" or "equipped" to the character.

Dernière modification par steven_allen (03-02-2011 01:24:20)

asdfgadsfz12 · 03-02-2011 01:21:08

Potions and Scrolls go to the graveyard after use, so I think Firon only applies to items that are still attached at end of turn.

Gabriel_Caetano · 03-02-2011 01:51:43

asdfgadsfz12 a écrit :

Potions and Scrolls go to the graveyard after use, so I think Firon only applies to items that are still attached at end of turn.

wrong, once i played a scroll against somebody who played a card like smash that iron (i don't actually remember the situation), and he chose the scroll of immobilization. after that, the defense score of the opposing character was back to normal

Majyqman · 03-02-2011 02:05:43

steven_allen a écrit :

[card]Ascetic[/card] says each player loses an item at random, it doesn't specify equipped or attached. [card]Firon[/card] says at the moment its played, not at the end of turn, so I can see how it would be misunderstood. I don't think the mechanic for scrolls and potions is the same as weapons and armor. I don't believe that either of them are ever "attached" or "equipped" to the character.

Actually, Ascetic specifies attached. That would be the reason I pointed out it used the exact same wording as firon. "Item Attached To" (your character / each living).

I'm not sure how this can be argued. One of them is working wrong.

steven_allen · 03-02-2011 02:12:16

Looks like the links and the in game text aren't matching up.

Anywho, the question is; was Firon intended to be effected by scrolls. I doubt it's not working right, I think the wording for Firon needs to be changed to reflect that it isn't effected by scrolls, or the rules for scrolls needs to be better defined.

Dernière modification par steven_allen (03-02-2011 02:16:56)

Gabriel_Caetano · 03-02-2011 02:25:49

just as i said, somebody just played [card]smash that iron[/card] on my [card]scroll of immobility[/card] and the later had its effect annulated... that means that the program reads it as an equipped card even if just until the end of the turn...

Dernière modification par Gabriel_Caetano (03-02-2011 02:28:42)

skinnyeddie · 03-02-2011 15:11:16

Gabriel_Caetano a écrit :

just as i said, somebody just played [card]smash that iron[/card] on my [card]scroll of immobility[/card] and the later had its effect annulated... that means that the program reads it as an equipped card even if just until the end of the turn...

If a Smash that Iron or Devouring Swarm can destroy a scroll when it is played, then I think it is only fair that a Firon will be affected by a scroll. For example, if you chain a Firon to a Scroll of Immobilization, it shoud give +2 instead of +1.

Gabriel_Caetano · 11-02-2011 04:31:37

any response?

bleachman · 11-02-2011 10:35:51

As far as I know, there is a destinction between permanent items and usable items. Permanent items are ones, such as jewels, armor and other things that stay equipped for a longer period of time (Including [card]Shuriken[/card], which goes back to your hand. It's a special effect of the card, yet the card belongs to the permanent item group.). Usable ones are like potions, scrolls or some craftsmen items. They are used once and then discarded.

Both item groups are equipped when played. The usable ones are activated immediately, such as [card]Fury Potion[/card], and the permanent ones are activated at the end of the turn. Exceptions to tehse rules are then mentioned on the cards themselves, such as on the card [card]Bestial[/card].

In my opinion, [card]Firon[/card]'s special effect only triggers on permanent items and not on usable or perishable ones.

Gabriel_Caetano · 11-02-2011 16:10:53

that should be on the card then... i don't know, if you remove a scroll or potion and it removes it's effect, then if somebody use smash thet iron on a healing potion, the character should lose the hit points gained as well...
u
that's a bit ambiguous in that

bleachman · 11-02-2011 16:18:14

There are temporary and permamnet stat changes as well. Most items do temp, but some, like healing balm do permanent.

Rathedan · 11-02-2011 16:44:42

Gabriel_Caetano a écrit :

that should be on the card then... i don't know, if you remove a scroll or potion and it removes it's effect, then if somebody use smash thet iron on a healing potion, the character should lose the hit points gained as well...
u
that's a bit ambiguous in that

Healing balm is an immediate effect. Use it, and it heals. In that aspect its like an action or spell card.

Cards played after the fact can't affect it.

It'd be similar to your opponent playing [card]Pray for healing[/card], then you playing [card]Runic Armor[/card] on [card]Hares the Runic[/card] and expecting the heal to be reversed. It's all about play order.

Smashes only work on equipped items. Balms work in the way that the effect is immediate, much like jewels. But, unlike most of the Nomads healh effects, it heals, and does not add health to the base score. If it added base health as a perm effect, then smash would work. Smash will work on Time potions to cancel heals, just not balms.

TL;DR Version: Balm heals immediately on equip. Smash only works after Equipping, so Balm can't be countered. Same applies to scrolls.

Gabriel_Caetano · 11-02-2011 16:59:34

ok, i got it
there's permanent items, like swords, daggers, armors
there's instant items like potions and scrolls
but in this case, a healing item activates and that's it, but fury potion, scroll of whatever and stuff, they should work the same way. Otherwise, if they're not permanents but can be destroyed and have their effects countered, they should be considered equipped until the end of the fight, then discarded

edit

then you should have cards that counter action cards played before them as well

Dernière modification par Gabriel_Caetano (11-02-2011 17:00:37)

Rathedan · 11-02-2011 17:25:03

Thats the whole strategy of play order though.

The fear of Obesity/Diversion/Etc. means playing around them, learning to play chains that are waste-able on not your order (TTD + Assasination on not your turn ensures at least assasintation gets played. Playing it on your turn means assa might get obeised), playing needed cards (Dagger Master, A New Start, etc) first on your turn to ensure they aren't countered.

Its the gamestyle and strategies revolve around it. Throwing in cancel-after-the-fact cards ruins it all.

Gabriel_Caetano · 11-02-2011 18:52:31

i get the thing about playing stile and game mechanics, but that's not the point you know. I see an issue here regarding the way of activation of Item cards. As I said in the begining of the thread: should firon count scrolls and potions or not. I believe it should...

Gabriel_Caetano · 24-02-2011 03:19:52

and it seems that cards that don't activate utumatically also can be removed with caerds like freeze

after all the thread got no definitive response yet

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 02-02-2011 23:32:10

firon + scrolls

#2 03-02-2011 00:26:28

Re : firon + scrolls

#3 03-02-2011 00:39:42

Re : firon + scrolls

#4 03-02-2011 01:19:28

Re : firon + scrolls

#5 03-02-2011 01:19:54

Re : firon + scrolls

#6 03-02-2011 01:21:08

Re : firon + scrolls

#7 03-02-2011 01:51:43

Re : firon + scrolls

#8 03-02-2011 02:05:43

Re : firon + scrolls

#9 03-02-2011 02:12:16

Re : firon + scrolls

#10 03-02-2011 02:25:49

Re : firon + scrolls

#11 03-02-2011 15:11:16

Re : firon + scrolls

#12 11-02-2011 04:31:37

Re : firon + scrolls

#13 11-02-2011 10:35:51

Re : firon + scrolls

#14 11-02-2011 16:10:53

Re : firon + scrolls

#15 11-02-2011 16:18:14

Re : firon + scrolls

#16 11-02-2011 16:44:42

Re : firon + scrolls

#17 11-02-2011 16:59:34

Re : firon + scrolls

#18 11-02-2011 17:25:03

Re : firon + scrolls

#19 11-02-2011 18:52:31

Re : firon + scrolls

#20 24-02-2011 03:19:52

Re : firon + scrolls

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