Eredan's World

ledeir · 06-01-2011 16:46:28

I have seen several posts complaining about the price of cards on the market...
In general they can be summarized as such: Cards are too expensive that new players can't get them and There are too many crystals in the economy.

I have one market solution which addresses both of those points... But older, "crystal rich", players will hate it. It also won't be popular with the sellers of high end cards...

Simple put, take a note from the US government and have tiered tax brackets.
Currently no matter how much you sell a card for you only pay 10%.
This doesn't remove any substantial amount of crystals from the economy.

To make things more new player friendly, keep the 10% tax on sales under 10,000.
Increase the tax as the prices get higher though.
For example raise it to 25% on sales from 10,000 to 25,000 and make it 50% on sales 50,000 or higher.

Small sales would net the seller 90 to 9000 which is the current rate.
Medium sales would net the seller 7500 to 18750... This would also make it pointless to sell between 10,001 and 12000 since you earn just as much crystals selling for that price as you do for selling at 10,000...
That high price bracket would dramatically remove crystals from the economy without impacted new players at all. Also you would make more crystals selling for 50000 then you would for 50001 to 75000... Keeping prices that much lower.

This still allows for the astronomically expensive cards... But over time even those would likely drop in price due to removal of crystals from the market.

Obviously those numbers could be adjusted... the key point is the concept.
I can't comment on the upper end of the market because in all honesty I will never bother to look at it because I will never be able to afford it. I know there are people out there who think 50K is reasonable and even inexpensive... But remember, in order for a game to grow (and remain profitable) you need to attract new players. To a new player 50K is a huge number of crystals. To a new player 10K is a huge number of crystals unless they get really lucky in a pack or two!

Ok, that portion of this post was a bit longer than intended
I'll keep the second suggestion shorter...

One of the key causes of the market prices is the amount of crystals in the market. They need to be reduced. One simple way to do this is to cap the number of crystals which can be earned a day. You can only earn 250 from friends, how about making it so only your first 10 games earn you crystals? That will give you a range of 200 to 400 a day... It still rewards good players, but it makes it less overwhelming. Obviously winnings from tournaments and such would be completely separate.

I think I had a third thing... but I can't remember now. I spent too long on the first one

EDIT: I remembered the third thing.
Some sort of auction system might help where you have to pay a set amount of crystals to put cards up for auction... The auction would then last a set amount of time, probably 2 days like the regular market, with the tax rate is determined by the starting bid rather than the final sales price... I could expand more on this method... but then it would probably deserve its own post... and its a moot point if the tiered tax system isnt implemented... unless they were to put a pricecap on the market...

Dernière modification par ledeir (06-01-2011 16:56:33)

Anihilate · 06-01-2011 17:05:44

Never cap the amount of crystals earned from games. It isn't that stellar of a reward anyway.

But having tiered taxed is a fabulous idea. In the real world, the more money you have, the more money you get taxed, so its always good to make yourself look broke.
In any case, max tax should never hit 50%

10k- 20k: 5% ( gain range of 95-9,500)
21k-30k: 15% (gain range of 17,850k-25.5k)
31k-50k: 20% (gain range of 24.8k-40k
51k+:25% (Gain of 38.25k+)

So the incentive is to either place your card at a gainful standpoint of the tier your sale is in. Selling cards for a few thousand less would actually be beneficial to a sellers gain.

ledeir · 06-01-2011 17:22:52

Anihilate a écrit :

In any case, max tax should never hit 50%

So that's what the US is doing wrong!
(sorry, couldn't resist, and actually it looks like they max at 35%)

Returning to the topic at hand though... Thanks for the voice of support

I definitely think someone who has a better grasp of the price range than I would need to figure out the specific tax rates and brackets... Having more brackets (4 in your example) would definitely be an asset... The more places that have overlap, the more likely people are to try and fall just below a bracket...

I do thing the tax jump should probably be more substantial though... Even if it doesn't hit 50%, it should probably still be 10% change be tier... making your example become

31K to 50K: 25% (23250 - 37.5K)
51k+: 35% (33.x K+)

XenoZangotta · 06-01-2011 17:35:35

I remember back in the day I could buy most cards for less than 1k, and I cringed when I saw cards over 6k.

Ah well, not being one that can get fee'z often, I've ended up stagnent as the market shot by me.

Can't even get free fee'z most of the time. Depends on location...

Anihilate · 06-01-2011 18:01:02

ledeir a écrit :

Anihilate a écrit :
In any case, max tax should never hit 50%
So that's what the US is doing wrong!
(sorry, couldn't resist, and actually it looks like they max at 35%)
Returning to the topic at hand though... Thanks for the voice of support
I definitely think someone who has a better grasp of the price range than I would need to figure out the specific tax rates and brackets... Having more brackets (4 in your example) would definitely be an asset... The more places that have overlap, the more likely people are to try and fall just below a bracket...
I do thing the tax jump should probably be more substantial though... Even if it doesn't hit 50%, it should probably still be 10% change be tier... making your example become
31K to 50K: 25% (23250 - 37.5K)
51k+: 35% (33.x K+)

We don't want the overlap to be deathly, pumping it up to 35% would never get passed by the devs

ledeir · 06-01-2011 18:21:53

Thats true... I may be presenting too much overlap in my ideas...
That could artificially segment the market...

As for the 35%, I'm not entirely sure I agree that the devs wouldn't accept that.
At least when I look up the income tax rates for France

Bracket of taxable income Tax Rate (%)
0 – 5,875 0
5,875 to 11,720 5.5
11,720 to 26,030 14
26,030 to 69,783 30
Over 69,783 40

Papa_Frita · 06-01-2011 18:45:56

i'd rather stay with the auction idea than the extreme tax.. an extreme tax to extreme prices imho it would only make the market less dinamic.

but an auction, where the Seller is paying a tax to put his card for aucion for a couple of days, that would really make the seller think twice of the price he is coming up with.. becaause if he doesn't sell such card, then he losses what he invested on auctioning it.

hmm this idea i like a lot. it's also FUN and catching. market should be fun, as game is.

ledeir · 06-01-2011 18:54:03

Papa_Frita a écrit :

i'd rather stay with the auction idea than the extreme tax.. an extreme tax to extreme prices imho it would only make the market less dinamic.
but an auction, where the Seller is paying a tax to put his card for aucion for a couple of days, that would really make the seller think twice of the price he is coming up with.. becaause if he doesn't sell such card, then he losses what he invested on auctioning it.
hmm this idea i like a lot. it's also FUN and catching. market should be fun, as game is.

I wish I could take full credit for the auction idea, but I will admit to being inspired by ebay.

Should I have started the auction idea in a separate thread to keep this one from getting too confusing?

Papa_Frita · 06-01-2011 22:04:31

ledeir a écrit :

Papa_Frita a écrit :
i'd rather stay with the auction idea than the extreme tax.. an extreme tax to extreme prices imho it would only make the market less dinamic.
but an auction, where the Seller is paying a tax to put his card for aucion for a couple of days, that would really make the seller think twice of the price he is coming up with.. becaause if he doesn't sell such card, then he losses what he invested on auctioning it.
hmm this idea i like a lot. it's also FUN and catching. market should be fun, as game is.
I wish I could take full credit for the auction idea, but I will admit to being inspired by ebay.
Should I have started the auction idea in a separate thread to keep this one from getting too confusing?

i used to play a FB game that had that market system and it was awesome. the game sucked big time but the market really had it going. can't remember the name.. but the system was like you say..

a player that wants to sell an item puts a starting bid price and a 'buy now' price. seller is automatically charged for like 5% of the price of the item he auctions. the auction can last from 1 to 5 days. tax increase from 1 to 5 days, since seller have to wait till auction is ended to actually sell the item. that way, if he needs fast crystals he will put it for 1 day and cheap. player expecting to get big benefit should wait and pay the right amount for it.

then a bidder having the amount of crystals can set a bid. crystals are automatically taken out from his acc till auction is ended. if he results to be the winner, he gets the card. if someone makes a higher bid, he can re-bid with difference of crystals needed for it. if he losses, the crystals are given back to bidder.

it's so simple, efficient, and fun... but extreme atm, since it's a completley way of understanding the eredan market.. i don't know how a change like this would be actually doable.

Raeil · 07-01-2011 07:44:42

I have to agree with this too. Being a new player, i see a couple half decent cards i'd like to have, of course w/o buying fee'z, it'll take me 20 years to afford anything to stand half a chance. I also would like to see maybe a way to earn more crystals for f2p peeps beyond adding on FB? I'm not suggesting a huge increase, but w/o a stable market, i'm sure it could scare away potential new players. Right now it seems to look like: Spend real money + sell unwanted cards = win every match. I took on a guy today at lvl 9, had a lvl 4 Pilkim, lvl 3 Councilor Ishaia, and a lvl 2 Apostle of Destiny, and of course assorted max level spells. Unless he got a better starter set than me, lmao.
Edit ~ I've been looking at deck build suggestions, and people are like " use 3 of (card name here), it's only 20k each!" Now how is a f2p/rare fee'z buyer supposed to combat a deck of someone who can regularly buy fee's and get all the 20k+ cards for their deck?

Dernière modification par Raeil (07-01-2011 08:18:42)

Glasher · 09-01-2011 04:10:05

The only way to make it really change anything is to have the option to buy straight crystals, or transfering bought feez directly to crystals.

It's free to play not free to own face. This is as close to irl tcg's as you can get. Allowing people to buy crystals is as close as you can get to going to a card shop and buying a card for your deck.

Zorak · 09-01-2011 06:03:53

Its not my intention to make advertisement of another game, but take a look at ***biiiiipppp*** bip. Its online for about 6 years and I think its perfect in every aspect that this game is suffering now. Very friendly for new players and the market works perfectly, even for those with low cash. Not to mention that is an average of 5000 players connected every hour of the day.
Eredan must follow the same path in order to be great. Several things here are totally wrong. Im here for 3 weeks and every corner I turn there's some Eredan entity whispering on my ear "buy buy buy", sometimes it screams. Of course I bought the Feez, and plaining to buy more as soon as my market license expires. Speaking of, this is one thing that I find extremely screwed if the intention is to bring new players. Make it 2 months, or unlock the market permanently after you buy "X" Feez.
The older and richer players, like a few I saw here, will cry a lot at every change that favors the poorer and the newbie, but the only solution to solve this and make the community grow is to bring more and more new players, no matter if they gonna put money or not. For every new player that comes, imagine that 3 or 4 comes with him, and 1 of them is a buyer. Great improvement! The others free players soon will leave the game, because life here is impossible if you don't bring the cash.
I look at the market every time, and find a lot of crazy business there. Like Fireball, that everyone wants, its an uncommon card and cost more than a full lvl Telendar. Someone said "but fireball is a pillar in every mage decks and bla bla bla", ITS UNCOMMON! 5 COPIES AT THE MARKET RIGHT NOW! Sacred Nova is rare and costs 1/4, 12 copies. How can it be possible to buy 3 Zil boosters and take 2 Dances With Volk (rare) and 0 Fireballs in 2 Noz boosters? I know about the probabilities, but is just fkd up to my mind. My conclusion? No one buying Feez. The few boosters that come to see the light bring crapy rares to make its price to drop. I bought a 4 pack another day. Got a Master Craftsman, price about 12k that day. Look at the market now. 5,5k, 24 copies. Its like "trow in the boosters 20 copies of a crapy rare and 1 Ergue. And 2 Fireballs". This is a litle off topic but in the end is all part of the same problem. They sold all the Eclipse boosters?
Everyone wants a Zil or a Noz deck. I think the last releases was great, Pirates are good and Djanema rocks, but come on, the same mistake over and over? Why to make the players buy 4 Pistolblade copies, or 4 Dazzle? It already hurts in the pocket to buy 1. Make fusions with uncommon cards, its fair enough. Richie Rich says "oh! come on, 60k is nothing!". My ass...
Fix the bugs, make the boosters cheaper and/or more directed for what you want. Big improvement with Affiliated boosters, but the collection grows more every week and its extremely difficult to get a card close to what you want. Maybe if the rare come for the guild you choose, or unaffiliated. Buy a Zil booster and get a IHAS is annoying. Or make it 2 rares, or 1 more uncommon.
About the Watchmaker: its the biggest joke of this game. Slap me in the face and call me a loser.
Eredan is a great game, unique and have lots of potential. Lets make our voices to be heard and bring good changes.
Sorry for the bad english and the big text, I'm brazilian, but I think u guys can understand.

Limestone · 09-01-2011 17:15:12

Zorak a écrit :

fireball is a pillar in every mage decks and bla bla bla", ITS UNCOMMON! 5 COPIES AT THE MARKET RIGHT NOW! Sacred Nova is rare and costs 1/4, 12 copies. How can it be possible to buy 3 Zil boosters and take 2 Dances With Volk (rare) and 0 Fireballs in 2 Noz boosters?.

Great cards can't be judge by rarity alone, fireball is a staple in mage deck, everybody wants it, so it's normal with the price like that the and that's a fact. If fireball was a rare card in the first place the price will be doubled, be grateful with it's rarity

Sacred nova is quite cheap btw, costing no more than 5k to8k depending on the stocks but this week the nomads new character is a multi class priest and this week trophy needs a priest in your deck so the price increased a little bit. Wait another week and hope the price will be stable

And the rest of your post is too demanding not inspiring

Zorak · 09-01-2011 19:03:55

Limestone a écrit :

Zorak a écrit :
fireball is a pillar in every mage decks and bla bla bla", ITS UNCOMMON! 5 COPIES AT THE MARKET RIGHT NOW! Sacred Nova is rare and costs 1/4, 12 copies. How can it be possible to buy 3 Zil boosters and take 2 Dances With Volk (rare) and 0 Fireballs in 2 Noz boosters?.
Great cards can't be judge by rarity alone, fireball is a staple in mage deck, everybody wants it, so it's normal with the price like that the and that's a fact. If fireball was a rare card in the first place the price will be doubled, be grateful with it's rarity
Sacred nova is quite cheap btw, costing no more than 5k to8k depending on the stocks but this week the nomads new character is a multi class priest and this week trophy needs a priest in your deck so the price increased a little bit. Wait another week and hope the price will be stable
And the rest of your post is too demanding not inspiring

Sorry about the demanding. I was nervous because of the beatings I took yesterday.

About the Fireball example, I think you didn't get what Im trying to say. The point is for it being a uncommon more copies should be in the market and the price could be lower. In top of that, I'm not sure but Fireball is one of the first cards, so in all the time that this game is online, and Noz lovers buying boosters, there's only 3 copies for sale? Looks like a collector card, so hard to get. I didn't say it should be rare and the comparison with Sacred Nova is just to show that a card of the same caliber, and its a rare, cost less than 1/4 of Fireball's price today, don't want it to be cheaper, its not the point. I know, Fireball is used in a ton of decks while the list for Sacred Nova is smaller.
Sorry for trying to express my opinion. For now on I'll be quiet in my newbie seat and watch this tragedy.

Samsari · 09-01-2011 21:43:51

Zorak a écrit :

The point is for it being a uncommon more copies should be in the market and the price could be lower.

More copies owned by players? Yes. More copies at sale? Not necessary. There's a much bigger amount of people using mage decks than priest decks. Also, [card]Fireball[/card] is needed for 2 Evos. You need two to get [card]Rain of Death[/card] and you need one to get [card]Lord Galmara[/card] (Fire Guemelite version) to Lv 3. That's why there are less copies of it avaiable at the market.

ledeir · 09-01-2011 22:18:10

Samsari a écrit :

More copies owned by players? Yes. More copies at sale? Not necessary. There's a much bigger amount of people using mage decks than priest decks. Also, [card]Fireball[/card] is needed for 2 Evos. You need two to get [card]Rain of Death[/card] and you need one to get [card]Lord Galmara[/card] (Fire Guemelite version) to Lv 3. That's why there are less copies of it avaiable at the market.

That's a key point... Some key cards are "destroyed"... They are either merged into other cards or upgraded themselves.

(but that touches on a separate pet peeve of mine...)

Zorak · 09-01-2011 22:33:14

Samsari a écrit :

Zorak a écrit :
The point is for it being a uncommon more copies should be in the market and the price could be lower.
More copies owned by players? Yes. More copies at sale? Not necessary. There's a much bigger amount of people using mage decks than priest decks. Also, [card]Fireball[/card] is needed for 2 Evos. You need two to get [card]Rain of Death[/card] and you need one to get [card]Lord Galmara[/card] (Fire Guemelite version) to Lv 3. That's why there are less copies of it avaiable at the market.

You're right about that, maybe Fireball wasn't the best example. I'll buy Noz boosters next time. Lets see how many Fireballs I get.

Papa_Frita · 10-01-2011 05:31:31

Zorak, dude, i understand you completely and i'm sure everyone does.. but you have to know that the card type doesn't determine de value of a card. there are crappy rares and there are gretas uncommons. the fact that a card is rare just determines the frequency in which is dropped. and yes, it's unlogical, but i don't see where's the problem. if you don't get a copy of it in a noz booster after 50 purchases it's very possible. you get always (for example) 15% chance to get a fireball. that doesn't mean you ae getting 15 fireballswith 100 purchases. you can get 0 or you can get 100 copies. that dependes on nothing but randomness (or luck).

hi from your neighbour from Arg

Dernière modification par Papa_Frita (10-01-2011 05:31:45)

Zorak · 10-01-2011 06:30:16

Papa_Frita a écrit :

Zorak, dude, i understand you completely and i'm sure everyone does.. but you have to know that the card type doesn't determine de value of a card. there are crappy rares and there are gretas uncommons. the fact that a card is rare just determines the frequency in which is dropped. and yes, it's unlogical, but i don't see where's the problem. if you don't get a copy of it in a noz booster after 50 purchases it's very possible. you get always (for example) 15% chance to get a fireball. that doesn't mean you ae getting 15 fireballswith 100 purchases. you can get 0 or you can get 100 copies. that dependes on nothing but randomness (or luck).
hi from your neighbour from Arg

Hello Papa!
I got it, as i said before I took the worst example to compare prices since there's a lot of stuff that involves Fireball, but I still think that its price could be like 30k, It would be acceptable to me, but maybe there's more things going on than we know about this card. Maybe the market experts are keeping them, expecting that its price to increase more and more, or maybe its just another effect of this week trophy since every copy that goes to the market at less than 50k vanish in a couple hours. Yes, I'm keeping track of a few cards, trying to make a little profit on re-sales. Bought an Ergue for 42k and a life Devourer for 35k.
About the probabilities, I'm an Engineering student and made a course a few semesters ago and your totally right about that, I don't question it, so forget about this part of my post, its not that simple as I made it appear.
By the way, the chances are the same to get it in a Zil booster. My mistake.
To finish this I must say that Pelé was better than Maradona. Joking
Hope you can help me with some good tips in the future, as a good neighbor.

Papa_Frita · 10-01-2011 15:11:02

Zorak a écrit :

Hello Papa!
I got it, as i said before I took the worst example to compare prices since there's a lot of stuff that involves Fireball, but I still think that its price could be like 30k, It would be acceptable to me, but maybe there's more things going on than we know about this card. Maybe the market experts are keeping them, expecting that its price to increase more and more, or maybe its just another effect of this week trophy since every copy that goes to the market at less than 50k vanish in a couple hours. Yes, I'm keeping track of a few cards, trying to make a little profit on re-sales. Bought an Ergue for 42k and a life Devourer for 35k.
About the probabilities, I'm an Engineering student and made a course a few semesters ago and your totally right about that, I don't question it, so forget about this part of my post, its not that simple as I made it appear.
By the way, the chances are the same to get it in a Zil booster. My mistake.
To finish this I must say that Pelé was better than Maradona. Joking
Hope you can help me with some good tips in the future, as a good neighbor.

You know.. this issue about Fireball and many other cards started about a month ago, when exp was 3 times lower. We used to gain 6 exp points per char, then a "one week promo" started and we gained 18 exp points. Then, after promo ended, exp didn't low till original, but lowed just a bit than the promo exp. Tricky devs move to boost the exp without much complains about it..

That's the reason some cards like FB are so expensive. With low exp, you could buy a lv 1 char and evo it till max and sell it, which left an awesome profit. Now, with high exp, it's easy to max lvl a char, so they are not expensive anymore. Consequently, good cards boosted their price till the sky.. All the market disbalanced and that's why most of new players tend to abandon and old player complain a lot

we're still waiting for a solution, but Feerik devs don't seem to bother. New cards are released every week and inflation is now a big time issue =/

And i have to agree Pele was best than Maradona (hope another arg doesn't read this lol)

Anihilate · 10-01-2011 18:56:55

Papa_Frita a écrit :

You know.. this issue about Fireball and many other cards started about a month ago, when exp was 3 times lower. We used to gain 6 exp points per char, then a "one week promo" started and we gained 18 exp points. Then, after promo ended, exp didn't low till original, but lowed just a bit than the promo exp. Tricky devs move to boost the exp without much complains about it..
That's the reason some cards like FB are so expensive. With low exp, you could buy a lv 1 char and evo it till max and sell it, which left an awesome profit. Now, with high exp, it's easy to max lvl a char, so they are not expensive anymore. Consequently, good cards boosted their price till the sky.. All the market disbalanced and that's why most of new players tend to abandon and old player complain a lot

Fireball is expensive because its a staple card, and you're odds of drawing it are slim. There are about 120 uncommon cards that you can pull, fireballs only one of them. Good luck getting them out of any pack if the odds are 1:120

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 06-01-2011 16:46:28

Market and Crystal Suggestions

#2 06-01-2011 17:05:44

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#3 06-01-2011 17:22:52

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#4 06-01-2011 17:35:35

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#5 06-01-2011 18:01:02

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#6 06-01-2011 18:21:53

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#7 06-01-2011 18:45:56

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#8 06-01-2011 18:54:03

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#9 06-01-2011 22:04:31

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#10 07-01-2011 07:44:42

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#11 09-01-2011 04:10:05

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#12 09-01-2011 06:03:53

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#13 09-01-2011 17:15:12

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#14 09-01-2011 19:03:55

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#15 09-01-2011 21:43:51

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#16 09-01-2011 22:18:10

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#17 09-01-2011 22:33:14

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#18 10-01-2011 05:31:31

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#19 10-01-2011 06:30:16

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#20 10-01-2011 15:11:02

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

#21 10-01-2011 18:56:55

Re : Market and Crystal Suggestions

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