They are the same maximum price by about 1 week and half, WHY IT DONT RAISE THE GODDAMMIT PRICE? This market is still broke, they say that the maximum price of a card raise if any of her is selled on these day, but this is a broke thing, becuz always gonna have some supid troll that gonna sell one card, and then the price dont gonna raise!!! Check out the [card]art of Tracking[/card], is the same situation, always there's someone who sell the card by 1000cx but it dont worth it, it worth more, but everyone(buyers and sellers) get becuz the maximum price IS STILL THE SAME!

My sugestion: Not only one card must be selled to the price not go up, must be at least 10 cards, perhaps even 15, but this make me really sad about this game, we cant see good cards at the market, and when u drop a Art of traking or Sitar Hero on booster, you want to sell that, but you cant, becuz of that stupid price bar =/

You agreed?

Yes(Post Why)
No(Post Why anyway)

Votes totaux: 9

Les résultats du sondage sont masqués pour les invités

Zurga · 30-05-2012 19:55:51

It is not because you don't see it on the market that there is no such card in the market at some point of the day and they are sold.

catcatcat · 30-05-2012 19:59:36

The real problem with the marketplace is that it rewards people for not selling cards. Unless you're really in need of some crystals, you're better off holding onto your cards indefinitely while the price gets higher and higher.

While the last market made it easier to make a profit, at least the cards you wanted to buy were on sale (brawl, attracts lightning, etc.) or the ones you wanted might go down in price (ecstasy, aging, etc.).

Stormholt · 30-05-2012 20:23:22

Zurga a écrit :

It is not because you don't see it on the market that there is no such card in the market at some point of the day and they are sold.

Well but that is the big poblem, these cards are only sold at a time of the day, and are few of 'em that are selled, only 4-5 cards... Dont u think that the art of traking worth more than 1000cx? And well if you got one Sitar hero on the Daily mission? You dont wanna that, and it worth a lot of times more, but this stupid bar gets on our way... Its just like catcatcat said(excuse me if i misundestood) but when we got a event or whatever(just like this case, where we got the tristam event) this card is more needed, and someone who what to make some profit, wanting to sell that on these time, cannot do it... I understand now, feerik dont want us to make profit, they want us only to spend MONEY MONEY AND MONEY, this sucks, the greed of feerik make players sad u know...

al_vh1n · 30-05-2012 21:41:26

I agree w/ Stormholt. I think the max price increase isn't working.

Zurga a écrit :

It is not because you don't see it on the market that there is no such card in the market at some point of the day and they are sold.

Then how come the current listing price isn't increasing as well if there is a card sold. I've been monitoring some cards that I wanted to sell but the max price and current listing price isn't even changing after days even weeks of not seeing that card in the market. Clearly there is something wrong w/ how they compute those prices.

Another problem is when a card gets in-demand because it is needed to finish an event or weekly trophy, we will never see those cards being sold in the market until the said event is finished thus making players unable to participate or finish those quests. No one wants to sell those cards because players felt they aren't getting the right price the card deserves on that moment. I know one of the reasons Feerik made these restrictions is to avoid sudden card inflation but the end result is card scarcity because no one wants to sell their cards anymore.

The solution:
1. fix/revamp the computation of max price and current listing price
2. make the updating of max price/current listing every 12 hrs instead of the 24-hr period
3. if a certain card is sold 20 times or above within 12 hrs (meaning the card is in-demand for some reason), the max price increases an additional 30%

Zurga · 30-05-2012 21:56:41

The problem is not max price or anything that kind, the problem is the number of card in sell.
You can sell only if you had purchase something.
You can sell only cards obtained by that way.

Say that 15% of regular player are able to sell something.
They don't have a lot of card of the kind you search, they have card of all kind.
So if you say that 60% of regular player search for theses cards, basically the cards are always in shortage.
Add to that people like Stormholt that want by over all make a lot of crystals from cards that will never been over 1000cx and you add shortage to shortage.

Now for my personal case in the last event, I have sold all the cards I had useful for the event in less than 3 hours and no cards was higher than 900cx. I didn't retain cards or want to make profit but when I have no more cards, I can't sell more.

Make your calculation, few cards, few sellers, lot of buyers, small market.
Price regulation is a good thing in this type of market.

Nurvus · 30-05-2012 23:58:31

Zurga a écrit :

It is not because you don't see it on the market that there is no such card in the market at some point of the day and they are sold.

Is there an expected average sale amount as a basis to determine whether the price drops or raises?

Is it absolute?
Example: If 1+ cards are sold = max price drops/remains the same.

Or is it relative?
Example: If it's Rare and 0-4 cards are sold, it raises, if 5 are sold, it remains the same, if 6+ are sold, it drops.

Unfortunately I'm inclined to think it's closer to absolute...

There should be an "expected" amount of transactions per day, per card, depending on rarity and/or how many exist in the game.

The raising or dropping of prices should be based on that.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (30-05-2012 23:59:05)

Zurga · 31-05-2012 00:28:04

Raising and dropping is based directly on real sell on the market.

If there is at least one sell on the market, the average price is updated to go to the selling price.
If there is no sell on the market, the max limit price is upgraded about 30% up each day until there is a sell where the max limit is down to 30% higher than the new average price.

If nothing change, this mean that some people sell cards at 30% less than the max limit price.

Stormholt · 31-05-2012 04:21:01

Zurga a écrit :

Raising and dropping is based directly on real sell on the market.
If there is at least one sell on the market, the average price is updated to go to the selling price.
If there is no sell on the market, the max limit price is upgraded about 30% up each day until there is a sell where the max limit is down to 30% higher than the new average price.
If nothing change, this mean that some people sell cards at 30% less than the max limit price.

Well and is there where feerik is missing... I already done the sugestion:

Take off this bar, and put back the old and good "Put a price here", its okay, it can be bad becuz stimulates changes between the players, BUT i said already, why dont show only 5 sells per card? High prices dont gonna be shown, or even only show 3 cards, why someone would like to buy a higher priced card? Only if is to change duh >.<

P.S.: Well, we live on a capitalist world, and everyone that is smart, dont even care about the next guy profit, we only care about our own profit, so, NO i dont gonna sell this card, becuz it worth a lot more, and there's 1000 players that think the same thing, is a question of wait for some guy to sell a card very cheap, but why would i sell the card cheap, if i know that someone will buy it by a expensive price? Is a question of dont beign a idiot, and beign pacient, to got some money...

Dernière modification par Stormholt (31-05-2012 04:24:50)

Gent M · 31-05-2012 09:52:29

First of all I would like to say considering my interests I do not like the current market system. I have a lot of foil characters, some of them in multiple copies, that I will never sell at the ridiculous prices suggested by feerik.

But despite this, I can not help but notice that players that are online when an event starts can no longer make a profit at the expense of those who aren't. And I like this a lot. Market speculators are a plague for any online game so I support any measure that decreases the incentive to speculate.

An even bigger decrease of the incentive to speculate could be realized by the proposition I had a while back - progressive taxing depending on the number of salable copies you have from a certain card (number tbd by rarity). This would also create an incentive to sell cards. Of course for this system to work the market prices should be correct.

P.S.: Well, we live on a capitalist world, and everyone that is smart, dont even care about the next guy profit, we only care about our own profit

This is the type of disastrous mentality that brought the world in such a bad state. You are saying as long as you are doing fine, screw everyone else. I don't think this is the place to go into details about this.

To draw a conclusion I would like to see a better market where you have an incentive to sell rather then to not sell, but I would hate a lot more to see a market where speculator could earn a lot of crystals at the expense of the vast majority of players and Feerik without doing anything of value.

Nurvus · 31-05-2012 20:29:51

Zurga a écrit :

Raising and dropping is based directly on real sell on the market.
If there is at least one sell on the market, the average price is updated to go to the selling price.
If there is no sell on the market, the max limit price is upgraded about 30% up each day until there is a sell where the max limit is down to 30% higher than the new average price.
If nothing change, this mean that some people sell cards at 30% less than the max limit price.

That's the problem.
The quotes below aren't quotes, just emphasizing because using Bold, Italic or Underline is extremely ineffective in this Forum.

1 - A single sale per day should only be enough to drop the price of a Legendary.
The requirement should be an average number of sales per day somewhat proportionate to the rarity of the card and/or how many exist in the game.

Legendaries - 0,5-1
Difficult Rares - 2-4
Difficult Uncommons (shadow master) and most Rares - 5-9
Difficult Commons (the art of tracking), most Uncommons and easy Rares - 10-14
Easy Uncommons and most Commons - 15-20

If the amount of sales required to drop the price is not met, it should raise instead.

2 - The sales should average out across the span of 7 days.

Example:
- A certain Legendary requires an average of 1 sale per day to drop price.
- 2 are sold in Wednesday, 1 in Thursday, but then none is sold for 5 days.
Result:
- Wednesday it drops (average per day = 2 divided by 1 day = 2)
- Thursday it drops (average per day = 3 divided by 2 days = 1,5)
- Friday it drops (average per day = 3 divided by 3 days = 1)
- Saturday it raises (average per day = 3 divided by 4 days < 1)
- Sunday it raises (average per day = 3 divided by 5 days < 1)
- Monday it raises (average per day = 3 divided by 6 days < 1)
- Tuesday it raises (average per day = 3 divided by 7 days < 1)

3 - There could be a restriction as well.
If a player buys X of a certain card and then tries to sell the same card (doesn't need to be the same copy) within 7 days, X of those cards will not count towards the average sales per day for that card.
Foil and Non-Foil count as different cards.

Example #1:
- A player buys 2x Shadow Master
- Same player tries to sell 3x Shadow Master (doesn't need to include the same copies) within 7 days
Result: Only 1x Shadow Master counts towards the average Shadow Master sales per day

Example #2:
- A player buys a Rain of Death
- Same player tries to sell Rain of Death (doesn't need to be same copy) within 7 days
Result: Doesn't count towards the average Rain of Death sales per day.

Dernière modification par Nurvus (01-06-2012 01:40:22)

Gent M · 01-06-2012 12:32:50

If the amount of sales required to drop the price is not met, it should raise instead.

While weighting number of sales required to modify the price by rarity is a good idea your system still encourages hoarding which is one of the bigger problems of the current system.

kilcosu · 01-06-2012 12:53:51

quick question regarding all of this...

how does the averaging prices work exactly?

if a card sold for 2k and the max was 3k does this mean that it averages out to a new max price at 2.5k?

correct me if i'm wrong but If I am right then wouldn't it mean that a card sold at max price would just average out to the original max price again?

card sold at 3k when max price is set at 3k just averages out to...3k...

i'm sure there is more to it than just that right?

Dernière modification par kilcosu (01-06-2012 12:55:00)

Zurga · 01-06-2012 13:33:03

The average price next day is :
- Take the average price of today.
- Take the average price of the effective sell (last 7days or 14, I don't remember exactly)
- Add the average price of the expired try of sell (pondered at less than the half, I don't remember the exact value and only last 7 days count or 14 if previous line is for 14 days)
- Make the average of this

So you have the new average price for the next day, the formula is probably not totally accurate, but the idea is there.

There was sell today => the max price is fixed at 30% above the average price.
There was no sell today (basically no change of the average price) => the max price is raised at 30% above the last max value.

kilcosu · 01-06-2012 22:13:59

so if cards are coming off of the market but not selling then how do the two variables of averaging the price and adding an extra 30% to the max price list conflict?

kinda like which came first, the chicken or the egg

Zurga · 01-06-2012 22:48:48

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

kilcosu · 02-06-2012 01:14:14

when a card comes off the market due to being on for the 48 time period without being sold then the max price limit is averaged right?

then how does this affect the max price cap being raised by 30% everyday a card is not sold?

if that is the case then wouldn't prices be driven down by cards constantly being taken off the market due to not being sold like most of the commons? forcing the prices to be so low.

example: foam giant is around 50k now, if say 6 people have foam giant up for sale but none sell in 48 hours then the price would go up 30% each day.
but when all 6 foam giants come off the market would the max price limit set for foam giant average out 6 times and drive the price down significantly?

DarkAvenger · 02-06-2012 01:47:35

I agree with Stormholt, the market is not working right, if it was you were supposed find almost every card in the market, this demotivates beginners

"I started playing a new game, i want to build a good deck but it's difficult to build decks due the card shortage in the market." result: quits playing(less players)

"I played for a few months have a good deck, but i'm tired of playing with it, i'll buy feez so i can sell my cards and make a new deck, oh wait I can't find the cards for the deck i want to build in the market" result: don't buy feez, don't sell cards, keeps the same deck(the game may become boring for some players)

yup i wanted to build a trackers deck, but i didn't have kotori nor arts of tracking and some others needed for the decks, by the time i found all the cards i needed in the market, i had collected enough crystals trough fights and daylis to buy a wild buds deck

"I have some cards i don't need, i'll buy feez so i can sell them, wait but i can't sell the cards for the price I think they are worth and i can't make profit, better keep them they may be useful for some event, trophy or campaign and it's difficult to get cards in the market when they're needed." results: don't buy feez, less cards in the market.

"I usually spend money regularly buying feez to get cards so i can sell and make profit, but i can't put them for sale for the price i want." result: stop spending money in the game or spends less money.

just some examples of some situations, of course there are different types of players and this may differ from ppl to ppl, but think the game is played by diferent types of players

there are players that have a lot of money to spend
players who can't spend money
theses two types will not be affected by this

but there are players who have a limited amount of money to spend, those are the most affected in this and with the market the way it is they may chose to spend their money in other things

the price limit think is not working right

Zurga · 02-06-2012 10:01:07

kilcosu a écrit :

when a card comes off the market due to being on for the 48 time period without being sold then the max price limit is averaged right?
then how does this affect the max price cap being raised by 30% everyday a card is not sold?
if that is the case then wouldn't prices be driven down by cards constantly being taken off the market due to not being sold like most of the commons? forcing the prices to be so low.
example: foam giant is around 50k now, if say 6 people have foam giant up for sale but none sell in 48 hours then the price would go up 30% each day.
but when all 6 foam giants come off the market would the max price limit set for foam giant average out 6 times and drive the price down significantly?

The real problem is that the card is not in sell, if the card is present on the market and comes off the market, the average price is averaged.
If the price of the card that comes off is above the old average price, the new one goes up.
So the max price at 30% over the average price goes up also.

kilcosu · 02-06-2012 13:34:16

are the averaged prices calculated as soon as the cards come off of the market? or is it a set time once per day (like noon french time)

Zurga · 02-06-2012 16:09:39

Once per day, I don't know the exact time.

kilcosu · 02-06-2012 23:05:37

so if the average price system is the current system we have to deal with then how difficult would it be to impose a weekly or bi-weekly 'slight' reset on the market prices.

like the first day of the week the prices add 60% percent instead of 30 or possibly higher up in the 80-90% to the max price sale limit

then the market has a week to two weeks to average itself out again. even a 100% increase of a card for 3000 on the market turns into 6000, and it's up to the players to decide whether the card is worth 6000 to buy, whether the card will be sold or not is again up to the buyers.

people wouldn't feel so grief-ed when a card that is clearly going for 4000 is sold for 1000 that makes the max price for that certain card drop.

and I'm sorry to say but legendary cards should just be a set price that you can only sell them at, if it meant a more stable market for every other card then it would be worth it

Stormholt · 03-06-2012 00:12:09

Look just like everyone hate the Market system, but feerik seens to ignore it... Feerik EGO is too big, that they ignore simple sugestions, that would help them... In my mind, feerik is just like this to me:

(Kanye West)

Nurvus · 03-06-2012 03:49:10

Gent M a écrit :

If the amount of sales required to drop the price is not met, it should raise instead.
While weighting number of sales required to modify the price by rarity is a good idea your system still encourages hoarding which is one of the bigger problems of the current system.

My idea would still be an improvement over the current system.

MrLordi92 · 03-06-2012 05:54:52

Stormholt a écrit :

Look just like everyone hate the Market system, but feerik seens to ignore it... Feerik EGO is too big, that they ignore simple sugestions, that would help them... In my mind, feerik is just like this to me:
http://omelhordelondres.com/wp-content/ … .jpg(Kanye West)

Feerik likes Fish Sticks and interrupting people?

Eredan's World

Annonce

#1 30-05-2012 19:44:22

Cant take this anymore

#2 30-05-2012 19:55:51

Re : Cant take this anymore

#3 30-05-2012 19:59:36

Re : Cant take this anymore

#4 30-05-2012 20:23:22

Re : Cant take this anymore

#5 30-05-2012 21:41:26

Re : Cant take this anymore

#6 30-05-2012 21:56:41

Re : Cant take this anymore

#7 30-05-2012 23:58:31

Re : Cant take this anymore

#8 31-05-2012 00:28:04

Re : Cant take this anymore

#9 31-05-2012 04:21:01

Re : Cant take this anymore

#10 31-05-2012 09:52:29

Re : Cant take this anymore

#11 31-05-2012 20:29:51

Re : Cant take this anymore

#12 01-06-2012 12:32:50

Re : Cant take this anymore

#13 01-06-2012 12:53:51

Re : Cant take this anymore

#14 01-06-2012 13:33:03

Re : Cant take this anymore

#15 01-06-2012 22:13:59

Re : Cant take this anymore

#16 01-06-2012 22:48:48

Re : Cant take this anymore

#17 02-06-2012 01:14:14

Re : Cant take this anymore

#18 02-06-2012 01:47:35

Re : Cant take this anymore

#19 02-06-2012 10:01:07

Re : Cant take this anymore

#20 02-06-2012 13:34:16

Re : Cant take this anymore

#21 02-06-2012 16:09:39

Re : Cant take this anymore

#22 02-06-2012 23:05:37

Re : Cant take this anymore

#23 03-06-2012 00:12:09

Re : Cant take this anymore

#24 03-06-2012 03:49:10

Re : Cant take this anymore

#25 03-06-2012 05:54:52

Re : Cant take this anymore

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